What more can the U.S. do to counter Russia's threat to Ukraine?

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What more can the U.S. do to counter Russia's threat to Ukraine?

Transcript¹

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to retired² Army Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, the former leader of U.S. forces in Europe, about the options that the U.S. has to deal with a possible Russian attack on Ukraine.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Do you stay, or do you go? That's the question Ukrainians are asking themselves right now as they weigh the chances of another Russian invasion of their country. Irena Pavlenok (ph) is a Ukrainian journalist in Kyiv. She says the people there are prepared to stand up to Russian aggression³.

IRENA PAVLENOK: I'm not going to run anywhere. I'm staying in this country whatever happens, and I think that a lot of people would feel just the same.

MARTIN: Ukrainians may have the will to fight Russia, but as of now, they don't have the wherewithal. President Biden told Ukraine's leader yesterday that the U.S. and its NATO allies are ready to respond if Russia invades. But what would or should that look like? We're going to put that question to our next guest. Retired Army Lieutenant⁴ General Ben Hodges is the former commander of U.S. forces in Europe, and he joins us now via Skype from Frankfurt, Germany. Thanks so much for being with us.

BEN HODGES: Thank you, Rachel.

MARTIN: From where you sit, General, do you think a Russian invasion of Ukraine is likely, and if so, is it imminent⁵?

HODGES: So unfortunately, I think it's increasingly likely this is a very real threat. I would say that based on the lack of any evidence that the Russians are considering seriously any sort of de-escalation. The language that comes from the Kremlin is not very encouraging. And it really feels like President Putin is - wants to pick a fight. He had - he never expected that NATO would actually respond favorably to his outrageous⁶ demands.

MARTIN: You have a unique position. You're the former head of U.S. forces in Europe. You also still live in Europe. You live there in Frankfurt. Do you think there is a divide between how Europeans are assessing this threat and the way the U.S. is portraying⁷ it?

HODGES: Well, of course, there are some tensions, although I will say that Secretary Blinken's diplomatic efforts are better than anything I've seen since 1995, in the time of the Dayton Peace Accord, such a comprehensive effort where you get all 30 members of NATO agreeing to reject those demands from the Kremlin. But part of the problem is that we continue to be surprised - that's the collective we. We continue to be surprised by what the Russians are doing because we just can't believe that, in this century, that a European leader would smash borders and European values the way that the Kremlin does. And so that's why you have different responses or approaches to how to deal with this threat.

I think that there's - you know, we're not dealing⁸ with Boy Scouts⁹. This guy has used poison to kill his opponents, whether they were in the U.K. or in Germany or in Russia - chased down and murdered somebody in the Tiergarten right in Berlin. So this is who we're dealing with. And I think some leaders still have a hard time getting their head around that that's what we're dealing with.

MARTIN: Is there a risk, though, that by elevating - rhetorically even - the threat from Russia, that you play right into Putin's hands? He keeps denying that he's going to wage any kind of attack, but doesn't he benefit in some way from just the threat as it's being defined by the West?

HODGES: Well, look; that's a great point, and there is that possibility. But I think that he plans to apply maximum pressure for as long as he can. That's why you've got not only over 100,000 troops on Ukraine's border, as well as the tens of thousands of troops that are still in Crimea and Donbas. This is to apply pressure. And he's hoping that at some point there will be a crack in the unity¹⁰ of the West or that the Zelenskyy regime will somehow collapse¹¹. I think he would rather avoid a conflict, but he also has to demonstrate something, I believe, for all the effort and expense and all of the talk about the terrible threat that comes from the West.

So there is the risk of this, but I do believe the closer we stick together and show resolve - in fact, use what is called active deterrence¹², which is demonstrated capability¹³ and will, versus¹⁴ passive deterrence, which is based on the threat of punishment after the fact - I think we actually do have a better chance of preventing a conflict.

MARTIN: Well, let me ask about the perception of unity among the U.S. and NATO allies. Germany has been very reluctant to send military aid to Eastern Europe to defend against a potential Russian attack in Ukraine. In fact, the government there got a whole lot of flak for announcing they were going to help, but they were only going to send 5,000 combat helmets to Ukraine. Does Germany's hesitancy make sense to you?

HODGES: I've tried hard to understand it, and it is very frustrating¹⁵. And you're right; the decision to provide helmets as the only real tangible¹⁶ aid coming from the most powerful country in Europe has been mocked and deservedly so. But I do believe that in Berlin there is a growing recognition that Germany has got to accept responsibility. And, you know, Annalena Baerbock, the foreign minister, she is tough. She speaks very clearly. And I think that now, increasingly, German leadership knows that everything has to be on the table, whether it's Nord Stream 2, other ways of responding, if Russia does launch yet another attack. So I'm not satisfied yet, and I don't think the Biden administration is satisfied yet, but it does feel like Berlin is beginning to realize it has to accept more responsibility here.

MARTIN: Finally, President Biden had this call with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy yesterday - the White House releasing a statement saying the U.S. is going to respond decisively if Russia invades. But he's been firm - no U.S. troops are going into Ukraine. What's the most effective way to help, then, from a distance?

HODGES: Well, I think that it's unfortunate that the president took that off the table right up front. But since then, the decision to put more troops on alert, our contribution to the NATO response force, increasing volume and speed with which we're providing real capability...

MARTIN: Yeah.

HODGES: ...I think these are tangible evidence of support.

MARTIN: We'll have to leave it there. Retired Army Lieutenant General Ben Hodges. Thank you so much for your time.

HODGES: OK. Thank you, Rachel.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

3 aggression   

n.进攻，侵略，侵犯，侵害

参考例句：

• So long as we are firmly united, we need fear no aggression.只要我们紧密地团结，就不必惧怕外来侵略。
• Her view is that aggression is part of human nature.她认为攻击性是人类本性的一部份。

4 lieutenant   

n.陆军中尉，海军上尉；代理官员，副职官员

参考例句：

• He was promoted to be a lieutenant in the army.他被提升为陆军中尉。
• He prevailed on the lieutenant to send in a short note.他说动那个副官，递上了一张简短的便条进去。

5 imminent   

adj.即将发生的，临近的，逼近的

参考例句：

• The black clounds show that a storm is imminent.乌云预示暴风雨即将来临。
• The country is in imminent danger.国难当头。

6 outrageous   

adj.无理的，令人不能容忍的

参考例句：

• Her outrageous behaviour at the party offended everyone.她在聚会上的无礼行为触怒了每一个人。
• Charges for local telephone calls are particularly outrageous.本地电话资费贵得出奇。

7 portraying   

v.画像( portray的现在分词 )；描述；描绘；描画

参考例句：

• The artist has succeeded in portraying my father to the life. 那位画家把我的父亲画得惟妙惟肖。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Ding Ling was good at portraying figures through careful and refined description of human psychology. 《莎菲女士的日记》是丁玲的成名作，曾引起强烈的社会反响。 来自汉英文学 - 中国现代小说

8 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

9 scouts   

侦察员[机，舰]( scout的名词复数 )； 童子军； 搜索； 童子军成员

参考例句：

• to join the Scouts 参加童子军
• The scouts paired off and began to patrol the area. 巡逻人员两个一组，然后开始巡逻这个地区。

10 unity   

n.团结，联合，统一；和睦，协调

参考例句：

• When we speak of unity,we do not mean unprincipled peace.所谓团结，并非一团和气。
• We must strengthen our unity in the face of powerful enemies.大敌当前，我们必须加强团结。

11 collapse   

vi.累倒；昏倒；倒塌；塌陷

参考例句：

• The country's economy is on the verge of collapse.国家的经济已到了崩溃的边缘。
• The engineer made a complete diagnosis of the bridge's collapse.工程师对桥的倒塌做了一次彻底的调查分析。

12 deterrence   

威慑，制止； 制止物，制止因素； 挽留的事物； 核威慑

参考例句：

• An extreme school of "disarmers" pronounced stable deterrence was a dangerous deception. “裁军论者”中的极端派声称，稳定的威摄是一种危险的骗局。
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。

13 capability   

n.能力；才能；(pl)可发展的能力或特性等

参考例句：

• She has the capability to become a very fine actress.她有潜力成为杰出演员。
• Organizing a whole department is beyond his capability.组织整个部门是他能力以外的事。

14 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

15 frustrating   

adj.产生挫折的，使人沮丧的，令人泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的现在分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's frustrating to have to wait so long. 要等这么长时间，真令人懊恼。
• It was a demeaning and ultimately frustrating experience. 那是一次有失颜面并且令人沮丧至极的经历。 来自《简明英汉词典》

16 tangible   

adj.有形的，可触摸的，确凿的，实际的

参考例句：

• The policy has not yet brought any tangible benefits.这项政策还没有带来任何实质性的好处。
• There is no tangible proof.没有确凿的证据。