美国国家公共电台 NPR--Ukraine's past strengthens its resolve against Russia's threats

Ukraine's past strengthens its resolve against Russia's threats

Transcript¹

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Oksana Syroyid, former deputy speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, about Russia's long history of meddling² in Ukraine, and what she hopes for her homeland's future.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

There are a lot of chapters to the story of this country, but one of them begins here in this very strange place.

Wow. I mean, how do you even describe this? Wow. The lights just turned on. I'm looking up at a gigantic gold chandelier and this massive spiral staircase. Are those birds? Like, what is that? A knight³ in armor?

This is the mansion⁴ of the former president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych. He was forced out of office after the protests in late 2013 and early 2014. The message from Ukrainians then was clear - Yanukovych was corrupt⁵, he was too close to Vladimir Putin and he had to go. He did. And when thousands of Ukrainians showed up at the palace grounds, they were overwhelmed by what they saw - lavish⁶ yards complete with a private zoo. Inside the mansion - golden staircases, each step worth tens of thousands of dollars. And there's this long table with a bizarre centerpiece - an alligator⁷ skin preserved in black lacquer. And in one corner of a sitting room, an exquisite⁸ music box.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MARTIN: Denis Tarakhkotelyk has been working here as a volunteer since 2014. I ask him why the Ukrainian government doesn't just sell some of this expensive stuff off to pay for roads or better schools. He says, first, rich people don't want to buy home furnishings that belonged to Viktor Yanukovych. And second, he says there's no guarantee the money would actually go where the politicians promised. In other words, corruption⁹ still hangs over a lot of life here.

OKSANA SYROYID: In Ukrainian politics, you cannot be good politicians. All politicians are crook¹⁰, and all of them are bad.

MARTIN: We're going to spend some time with someone who went into politics despite that public perception. Her name is Oksana Syroyid, and she was going to change what it meant to be a leader in her country. Syroyid was elected to parliament just months after the public protests that forced President Yanukovych out of office and out of the country. She served as the deputy speaker of parliament till 2019.

SYROYID: I'm currently vice¹¹ president of Kyiv School of Economics.

MARTIN: We should say, COVID is bad here right now, so she's teaching virtually. I met up with Syroyid in an empty workspace at the school to talk about corruption, politics and the buildup of Russian troops along Ukraine's border.

How do you see the current threat from Russia?

SYROYID: I'm asking myself every day this question. And one day I realized that actually, I feel the same as all my life, because my parents and grandparents, they were teaching me that Russia is a threat - that we are occupied, that it will not last long, that we will eventually get our independence, we should be prepared for this. But actually, Russia will never give up. It means that we will have to be prepared to protect and to fight for the country. That's why I actually don't feel any different. So I had the same feeling during my whole life. The most humiliating moment, of course, it was Russian invasion - first occupation and annexation¹² - legal annexation of Crimea, and then invasion and occupation part of Donetsk and Luhansk region.

MARTIN: Explain that feeling. You say it was humiliation¹³.

SYROYID: You know, I have one similarity. When I was 19, I was almost raped¹⁴ by the guy in front of my student residence. And when he was trying to take advantage on me, the lady - the concierge¹⁵ lady, the lady who was sitting in the lobby of the residence, she actually locked the door, and she was looking through the window on the process. And I had this feeling of helplessness because I was looking in her eyes, like, looking for protection, and it was nothing. She was just observing. And I - fortunately, I was quite strong. I was tall. So it took me just a couple of bruises¹⁶, and I was OK. But I had the same feeling in 2014 when Russia was invading Ukraine, and all the rest took the position of this concierge, you know, looking through the window.

MARTIN: You describe a very harrowing scene. You describe how you felt that the West really turned its back on Ukraine when Russia took over Crimea. How do you think the West is responding to this moment now?

SYROYID: Of course, today the reaction is different. And I think that even the fact that U.S. government is reiterating¹⁷ to Ukrainian government the threat, that the troops are around the border and they are emphasizes the threat and the probability of further invasion of Ukraine - I think that they are doing this to the big extent exactly to show that it's not like it was in 2014. So because, at that moment, everybody was silent. So now they are trying - like, they are compensating¹⁸ this to the big extent.

MARTIN: Overcompensating even, perhaps.

SYROYID: Sometimes yes, because, you know, that the leverage¹⁹ of such words is huge. Because, of course, if the president of the United States says that it's almost clear - so it's almost a deal that Russian will invade and they - the State Department commands to withdraw the diplomats²⁰ from Ukraine, of course, Ukraine markets fall, you know? So...

MARTIN: And then there's economic instability. Then is it unhelpful, what American leaders are saying right now?

SYROYID: I think that this battle over the, whose estimation is more correct? - is nonsense, is just useless. The probability is always high because Russia has been invading Ukraine for 350 years. So the probability is always, like we say, 50-50. It may or may not, you know? The reason why Russia and Putin - they feel so comfortable gathering²¹ troops around the border, because he was never punished. And...

MARTIN: For Crimea.

SYROYID: For anything - for Crimea, for Donbas, for Belarus, for Syria, for anything. And impugn²² evil always returns. And that's why - even for Georgia, he was not punished. So that's why he can try. Why not? And, you know, this is also the tricky²³ thing that the - like, if you promise the punishment in the future, it works only partially²⁴ because it can, like...

MARTIN: You're talking about sanctions, perhaps.

SYROYID: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it - to contain to some extent, but it doesn't mean that will been - will be - will not be a second try. So it will - definitely will be a second try.

MARTIN: Do you think the punishment should come now? Do you think the U.S. and EU countries should impose preemptive sanctions against Vladimir Putin?

SYROYID: I think that, at least, we have to agree to the real threat that is coming from Russia, because Russian real intent is actually to control two seas, Baltic and Black Sea, and Ukrainian territory. It's all about money, you know? It's about global trades. It's about global trade routes, about access to resources. So this is his objective - to control two seas and the territories between them.

Instead, he is creating projection²⁵. So he is creating the messages, the narratives²⁶, that absolutely false. Like, Ukraine is a failed state. And we say, no, no, no, we are not failed state. We are very successful. Ukraine and Russians are the same nation, the same people. No, no, no, we are different. He is permanently²⁷ creating projections²⁸ to distract our attention from real problem.

MARTIN: What is the problem as you see it?

SYROYID: The problem is that Russia now wants to play in the high league. For this, they need to control two seas and the territory in between them. Without those seas and the territory, they will be incapable²⁹ to become or to be real big geopolitical leader.

MARTIN: Do you think Ukraine has the ability to defend itself?

SYROYID: Well, it's always the question. If you compare the military - like, the military power, the weapon power, of course we are smaller army than Russian. But if you look at the motivation, what those Russian guy would be fighting for - for, like, doch (ph) of Putin or what? So what would be the reason for them to fight? For the mistresses of their oligarchs. No reason, yeah? It's would not be a glory for them.

MARTIN: And the Ukrainians?

SYROYID: And Ukrainians - they would be fighting for their land, because we don't have other land to go. So I cannot sit on the plane and just go somewhere. I have a lot of friends now calling me from different countries. You know, please come to us to stay for a few months. For what reason? And I tell them, you no understand. Because they say, what if Kyiv is threatened? And I tell them, don't you understand that if I lose Kyiv, I will have no place to return because there will be no country.

MARTIN: And that is just not a reality she's willing to consider. Syroyid isn't in parliament anymore, but she's still the leader of a small political party called Self Reliance, an ideal that stands in such sharp contrast to some of Ukraine's past leaders.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MARTIN: Viktor Yanukovych was pushed out because Ukrainians demanded better. The palace he built for himself by cheating his people is now vacant. He has fled to Russia. Meanwhile, Oksana Syroyid and others committed to an independent, free Ukraine - they are staying put.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 meddling   

v.干涉，干预（他人事务）( meddle的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• He denounced all "meddling" attempts to promote a negotiation. 他斥责了一切“干预”促成谈判的企图。 来自辞典例句
• They liked this field because it was never visited by meddling strangers. 她们喜欢这块田野，因为好事的陌生人从来不到那里去。 来自辞典例句

3 knight   

n.骑士，武士；爵士

参考例句：

• He was made an honourary knight.他被授予荣誉爵士称号。
• A knight rode on his richly caparisoned steed.一个骑士骑在装饰华丽的马上。

4 mansion   

n.大厦，大楼；宅第

参考例句：

• The old mansion was built in 1850.这座古宅建于1850年。
• The mansion has extensive grounds.这大厦四周的庭园广阔。

5 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

6 lavish   

adj.无节制的；浪费的；vt.慷慨地给予，挥霍

参考例句：

• He despised people who were lavish with their praises.他看不起那些阿谀奉承的人。
• The sets and costumes are lavish.布景和服装极尽奢华。

7 alligator   

n.短吻鳄(一种鳄鱼)

参考例句：

• She wandered off to play with her toy alligator.她开始玩鳄鱼玩具。
• Alligator skin is five times more costlier than leather.鳄鱼皮比通常的皮革要贵5倍。

8 exquisite   

adj.精美的；敏锐的；剧烈的，感觉强烈的

参考例句：

• I was admiring the exquisite workmanship in the mosaic.我当时正在欣赏镶嵌画的精致做工。
• I still remember the exquisite pleasure I experienced in Bali.我依然记得在巴厘岛所经历的那种剧烈的快感。

9 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

10 crook   

v.使弯曲；n.小偷，骗子，贼；弯曲(处)

参考例句：

• He demanded an apology from me for calling him a crook.我骂他骗子，他要我向他认错。
• She was cradling a small parcel in the crook of her elbow.她用手臂挎着一个小包裹。

11 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

12 annexation   

n.吞并，合并

参考例句：

• He mentioned the Japanese annexation of Korea in 1910 .他提及1910年日本对朝鲜的吞并。
• I regard the question of annexation as belonging exclusively to the United States and Texas.我认为合并的问题，完全属于德克萨斯和美国之间的事。

13 humiliation   

n.羞辱

参考例句：

• He suffered the humiliation of being forced to ask for his cards.他蒙受了被迫要求辞职的羞辱。
• He will wish to revenge his humiliation in last Season's Final.他会为在上个季度的决赛中所受的耻辱而报复的。

14 raped   

v.以暴力夺取，强夺( rape的过去式和过去分词 )；强奸

参考例句：

• A young woman was brutally raped in her own home. 一名年轻女子在自己家中惨遭强暴。 来自辞典例句
• We got stick together, or we will be having our women raped. 我们得团结一致，不然我们的妻女就会遭到蹂躏。 来自辞典例句

15 concierge   

n.管理员；门房

参考例句：

• This time the concierge was surprised to the point of bewilderment.这时候看门人惊奇到了困惑不解的地步。
• As I went into the dining-room the concierge brought me a police bulletin to fill out.我走进餐厅的时候，看门人拿来一张警察局发的表格要我填。

16 bruises   

n.瘀伤，伤痕，擦伤( bruise的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• He was covered with bruises after falling off his bicycle. 他从自行车上摔了下来，摔得浑身伤痕。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The pear had bruises of dark spots. 这个梨子有碰伤的黑斑。 来自《简明英汉词典》

17 reiterating   

反复地说，重申( reiterate的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• He keeps reiterating his innocence. 他一再申明他无罪。
• The Chinese government also sent a note to the British government, reiterating its position. 中国政府同时将此立场照会英国政府。

18 compensating   

补偿，补助，修正

参考例句：

• I am able to set up compensating networks of nerve connections. 我能建立起补偿性的神经联系网。
• It is desirable that compensating cables be run in earthed conduit. 补偿导线最好在地下管道中穿过。

19 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。

20 diplomats   

n.外交官( diplomat的名词复数 )；有手腕的人，善于交际的人

参考例句：

• These events led to the expulsion of senior diplomats from the country. 这些事件导致一些高级外交官被驱逐出境。
• The court has no jurisdiction over foreign diplomats living in this country. 法院对驻本国的外交官无裁判权。 来自《简明英汉词典》

21 gathering   

n.集会，聚会，聚集

参考例句：

• He called on Mr. White to speak at the gathering.他请怀特先生在集会上讲话。
• He is on the wing gathering material for his novels.他正忙于为他的小说收集资料。

22 impugn   

v.指责，对…表示怀疑

参考例句：

• Nobody can impugn his ability.没有人对他的能力表示怀疑。
• The Secretary's letter questions my veracity and impugns my motives.部长的来信怀疑我的诚实，质疑我的动机。

23 tricky   

adj.狡猾的，奸诈的；(工作等)棘手的，微妙的

参考例句：

• I'm in a rather tricky position.Can you help me out?我的处境很棘手，你能帮我吗？
• He avoided this tricky question and talked in generalities.他回避了这个非常微妙的问题，只做了个笼统的表述。

24 partially   

adv.部分地，从某些方面讲

参考例句：

• The door was partially concealed by the drapes.门有一部分被门帘遮住了。
• The police managed to restore calm and the curfew was partially lifted.警方设法恢复了平静，宵禁部分解除。

25 projection   

n.发射，计划，突出部分

参考例句：

• Projection takes place with a minimum of awareness or conscious control.投射在最少的知觉或意识控制下发生。
• The projection of increases in number of house-holds is correct.对户数增加的推算是正确的。

26 narratives   

记叙文( narrative的名词复数 )； 故事； 叙述； 叙述部分

参考例句：

• Marriage, which has been the bourne of so many narratives, is still a great beginning. 结婚一向是许多小说的终点，然而也是一个伟大的开始。
• This is one of the narratives that children are fond of. 这是孩子们喜欢的故事之一。

27 permanently   

adv.永恒地，永久地，固定不变地

参考例句：

• The accident left him permanently scarred.那次事故给他留下了永久的伤疤。
• The ship is now permanently moored on the Thames in London.该船现在永久地停泊在伦敦泰晤士河边。

28 projections   

预测( projection的名词复数 )； 投影； 投掷； 突起物

参考例句：

• Their sales projections are a total thumbsuck. 他们的销售量预测纯属估计。
• The council has revised its projections of funding requirements upwards. 地方议会调高了对资金需求的预测。

29 incapable   

adj.无能力的，不能做某事的

参考例句：

• He would be incapable of committing such a cruel deed.他不会做出这么残忍的事。
• Computers are incapable of creative thought.计算机不会创造性地思维。