After death of ISIS leader, U.S. expects Islamic State to try to replace him

After death of ISIS leader, U.S. expects Islamic State to try to replace him

Transcript¹

NPR's Steve Inskeep and NPR's Rachel Martin talk to Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby about the death of the Islamic State leader after a U.S. raid in Syria, and concerns of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

When the United States decided² to strike the leader of ISIS inside a house in Syria, they put special forces troops on the ground rather than using a missile strike. President Biden said that was partly to avoid civilian³ casualties.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Knowing that this terrorist had chosen to surround himself with families, including children, we made a choice to pursue a special forces raid at a much greater risk than - to our own people, rather than targeting him with an airstrike.

INSKEEP: Some civilians⁴ were killed in the end. Though, the U.S. military blames the ISIS leader himself for a suicide bombing. Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said yesterday the bottom line is that Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi, a man blamed for numerous terror attacks around the world, is dead.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JOHN KIRBY: This was the leader of ISIS. And he was a very hands-on leader.

INSKEEP: Kirby gave some details yesterday. And he is on the line with us this morning. Mr. Kirby, welcome back.

KIRBY: Thanks, Steve, good to be with you.

INSKEEP: So this mission took two hours, which surprised some people when the news broke because the famous raid on Osama bin⁵ Laden⁶ was just 40 minutes. But you said yesterday, two hours was always the plan, two hours on the ground. What about this took two hours? And what happened in that time?

KIRBY: Two reasons for that. One, there was an innocent family on the first floor of the building, a family that we believe didn't even know that the leader of ISIS was on the third floor of that house. And we wanted to make sure we could get them out safely. No. 2, we had hoped to be able to capture Abdullah alive. And that, we figured, would require some doing, including the fact that he would resist or fight back, which of course, his lieutenant⁷ did even though he decided not to fight back.

And so there was always an expectation that we'd need about two hours on the ground in order to execute this mission. They had to make those call-outs over a bullhorn in Arabic to convince everybody in the house to come out.

INSKEEP: OK.

KIRBY: And of course, it took a little while to do that. I mean, you can understand, particularly that family on the first floor, probably scared, frightened. They didn't, obviously, know we were coming and coming in force. So it took a little bit. And then, of course, shortly after the bullhorn call-outs and trying to get that family out...

INSKEEP: Right.

KIRBY: ...Mr. Abdullah blew himself up. And then, of course, they had to enter into the building.

INSKEEP: OK. So you've said that this was a suicide bombing that seems to have caused civilian casualties or at least some of the civilian deaths. I'm sure there's video of this. It was watched in the Situation Room and so forth⁸. Have you seen any video yourself? And is it consistent with what you're saying?

KIRBY: I have seen only a little bit of the video. I haven't seen all of it. But again, we talked to the assaulting force. So they've been debriefed⁹. They've laid bare what they saw and what they did. We're very confident that the explosion on the third floor happened well before the assaulting force even got into the building. Certainly, there was no airstrike conducted. It was definitely the result of Mr. Abdullah's hand.

INSKEEP: Because there have been instances where U.S. strikes have turned out to be different than first described, will the United States release video of this one?

KIRBY: I think we're still working through all the documentation. And that would include the video. And I don't have any predictions to make in terms of what we'll be able to release or not. We did release a couple of photos yesterday. Again, we're working our way through that. And if we think that that's something that can be done and should be done, we'll certainly explore it.

INSKEEP: Do you believe that ISIS is going to be able to replace this leader and go on, as they did when the U.S. killed his predecessor¹⁰ a few years ago?

KIRBY: We're going to assume that they're going to try to replace him. This is an organization that wants to reconstitute. They want to grow. So we'll see, you know, how they try to react to this, to his loss. But we're going to assume they're going to try to keep going.

INSKEEP: We're talking to John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman. And Rachel Martin is on the line. Of course, she's reporting this week from Ukraine. Rachel?

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Admiral Kirby, thanks for taking the questions. I want to ask about this intelligence assessment¹¹ that the Pentagon has confirmed, saying that Russia plans this false-flag operation. Can you explain briefly¹² how that would work?

KIRBY: So what the indications are, Rachel, is that in this particular case that we talked about yesterday, they would manufacture an atrocity¹³, an event, a killing¹⁴, perhaps a mass killing. And they would do it with, you know, a slick video that would show corpses¹⁵ on the ground, perhaps corpses that they took out of other places - mortuaries or something like that. They would have actors as mourners. They would even, we think, stage imagery of military equipment that would make it look like it was actually Ukrainian instead of Russian.

MARTIN: They would be staging this in the part of Ukraine that Russian separatists' control. So this would be an alleged¹⁶ plot.

KIRBY: That's the basic idea. Yeah, stage it in perhaps somewhere where, you know, they have Russian-speaking citizens that they're concerned about. Their whole pretext¹⁷ here, Rachel, has been to put the blame on Ukraine. They call Ukraine the aggressor. And now they're starting - and you can see it in their public comments. They're starting to say that the West and Ukraine combined are the aggressor, and our national security as Russians are under threat from Ukraine. And of course, that's just preposterous¹⁸.

MARTIN: Admiral...

KIRBY: Mr. Putin has more than 100,000 troops arranged across the border.

MARTIN: Do you have evidence of this, quote-unquote, "false-flag operation"?

KIRBY: Yeah. There's intelligence out there that we have that leads us to believe this. We wouldn't go public if it didn't. Now, I understand people are saying, you know, we ought to declassify¹⁹ that and show that. And I think, look; if there was a way to do this that wouldn't reveal how we know it, I think, you know, we'd be willing to look at that. But we also don't necessarily want the Russians to know how we know stuff.

MARTIN: Do you assess that this is something Russia has actually planned to do in Ukraine? Or is it something that they have developed as one of potentially several different options of what an incursion into Ukraine could look like or a pretense²⁰ for foreign incursion?

KIRBY: I think it's hard to say exactly how far along they are in the planning process. But the latter way you described it is sort of where we are, that we know that this is just one of several options that they are exploring to try to create a public narrative²¹ that they are the victim and that Ukraine is the aggressor.

MARTIN: What are Ukrainian officials supposed to do with this information? After all, this is something that U.S. intelligence is saying is going to happen on their territory.

KIRBY: Well, we obviously are constantly discussing what we're seeing and our perspectives with Ukrainian counterparts. We certainly want them to be as informed as we are in terms of the potential here for conflict and where and when that might occur. We want to make sure that they have as much information as possible so that they can be prepared, you know, obviously, to defend themselves against what would be the precursor²² of a Russian attack.

MARTIN: Pentagon spokesman Admiral John Kirby, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

KIRBY: It's great to be with both of you guys.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

3 civilian   

adj.平民的，民用的，民众的

参考例句：

• There is no reliable information about civilian casualties.关于平民的伤亡还没有确凿的信息。
• He resigned his commission to take up a civilian job.他辞去军职而从事平民工作。

4 civilians   

平民，百姓( civilian的名词复数 )； 老百姓

参考例句：

• the bloody massacre of innocent civilians 对无辜平民的血腥屠杀
• At least 300 civilians are unaccounted for after the bombing raids. 遭轰炸袭击之后，至少有300名平民下落不明。

5 bin   

n.箱柜；vt.放入箱内；[计算机] DOS文件名:二进制目标文件

参考例句：

• He emptied several bags of rice into a bin.他把几袋米倒进大箱里。
• He threw the empty bottles in the bin.他把空瓶子扔进垃圾箱。

6 laden   

adj.装满了的；充满了的；负了重担的；苦恼的

参考例句：

• He is laden with heavy responsibility.他肩负重任。
• Dragging the fully laden boat across the sand dunes was no mean feat.将满载货物的船拖过沙丘是一件了不起的事。

7 lieutenant   

n.陆军中尉，海军上尉；代理官员，副职官员

参考例句：

• He was promoted to be a lieutenant in the army.他被提升为陆军中尉。
• He prevailed on the lieutenant to send in a short note.他说动那个副官，递上了一张简短的便条进去。

8 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

9 debriefed   

v.向（外交人员等）询问执行任务的情况( debrief的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He was taken to a US airbase to be debriefed on the mission. 他被带到美国空军基地汇报执行使命情况。
• We debriefed our pilot after he had flown over the enemy's land. 我方飞行员飞越敌境之后，我们向他询问情况。 来自《简明英汉词典》

10 predecessor   

n.前辈，前任

参考例句：

• It will share the fate of its predecessor.它将遭受与前者同样的命运。
• The new ambassador is more mature than his predecessor.新大使比他的前任更成熟一些。

11 assessment   

n.评价；评估；对财产的估价，被估定的金额

参考例句：

• This is a very perceptive assessment of the situation.这是一个对该情况的极富洞察力的评价。
• What is your assessment of the situation?你对时局的看法如何？

12 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。

13 atrocity   

n.残暴，暴行

参考例句：

• These people are guilty of acts of great atrocity.这些人犯有令人发指的暴行。
• I am shocked by the atrocity of this man's crimes.这个人行凶手段残忍狠毒使我震惊。

14 killing   

n.巨额利润；突然赚大钱，发大财

参考例句：

• Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
• Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。

15 corpses   

n.死尸，尸体( corpse的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The living soldiers put corpses together and burned them. 活着的战士把尸体放在一起烧了。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Overhead, grayish-white clouds covered the sky, piling up heavily like decaying corpses. 天上罩满了灰白的薄云，同腐烂的尸体似的沉沉的盖在那里。 来自汉英文学 - 中国现代小说

16 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

17 pretext   

n.借口，托词

参考例句：

• He used his headache as a pretext for not going to school.他借口头疼而不去上学。
• He didn't attend that meeting under the pretext of sickness.他以生病为借口，没参加那个会议。

18 preposterous   

adj.荒谬的，可笑的

参考例句：

• The whole idea was preposterous.整个想法都荒唐透顶。
• It would be preposterous to shovel coal with a teaspoon.用茶匙铲煤是荒谬的。

19 declassify   

v.撤销保密

参考例句：

• These reports were only declassified last year.这些报告去年才被撤销了密级。
• Does the president have the power to declassify information?总统有权利解密相关信息吗？

20 pretense   

n.矫饰，做作，借口

参考例句：

• You can't keep up the pretense any longer.你无法继续伪装下去了。
• Pretense invariably impresses only the pretender.弄虚作假欺骗不了真正的行家。

21 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

22 precursor   

n.先驱者；前辈；前任；预兆；先兆

参考例句：

• Error is often the precursor of what is correct.错误常常是正确的先导。
• He said that the deal should not be seen as a precursor to a merger.他说该笔交易不应该被看作是合并的前兆。