There's no diplomatic path to end Russia's assault on Ukraine, Polish diplomat says

There's no diplomatic path to end Russia's assault on Ukraine, Polish diplomat¹ says

Transcript²

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to Marek Magieroweski, Poland's ambassador to the U.S., who says Russian President Putin has to suffer a decisive military defeat for the good of the region.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Next door to Ukraine, Poland has become a key player in Russia's war. As a member of the European Union and NATO, it is a strategic center of gravity for military and humanitarian³ aid, and it has welcomed Ukrainians who have fled. Yesterday, I sat down with Poland's ambassador to the United States. Marek Magieroweski said Poland is trying to integrate about 2.7 million refugees as quickly as possible.

MAREK MAGIEROWESKI: This outpouring of solidarity⁴ and sympathy towards our Ukrainian brethren has been really remarkable⁵, and I'm so proud of my nation. On the other hand, Poland is filling up right now, so mayors of many Polish cities are now in talks with their counterparts and colleagues in Europe and beyond in order to find a solution - how to relocate those Ukrainian migrants. Of course, they are still welcome in Poland. We are ready to take in many more refugees.

FADEL: Right.

MAGIEROWESKI: For example...

FADEL: I mean, I was on the Polish border...

MAGIEROWESKI: Yeah.

FADEL: ...And I watched so many stream across the border, and it was striking to watch women and children - no men.

MAGIEROWESKI: Mostly.

FADEL: And they came in because, obviously...

MAGIEROWESKI: Ah. Yes.

FADEL: ...The men could not come out.

MAGIEROWESKI: Yeah. A few weeks ago, the Polish Parliament passed a law which essentially⁶ facilitates the integration⁷ of Ukrainian refugees into the Polish society. For example, they can apply for Polish IDs. They can set up their own businesses. They can send their children to Polish schools. By the way, about 180,000 Ukrainian children have already been incorporated into the Polish schooling⁸ system.

FADEL: You know, I have to ask you, though, Ambassador - when I was in Poland, it was incredible and heartwarming to watch the way Polish citizens just showed up to help strangers, but a lot of critics look at the policy when it came to Ukrainian refugees and compare it to the policies of a much smaller group of refugees - from places like Syria, from places like Afghanistan - where the Polish government decided⁹ to build a wall and not allow them to come in, and there was rhetoric¹⁰ like they might bring epidemics¹¹ with them from the president.

MAGIEROWESKI: There was a distinct difference between these two migration¹² crises because, in this case, when we are now facing that conflagration¹³ in Ukraine, Poland is the first country in which those refugees can seek asylum¹⁴, unlike, in the case of all those African and Syrian and Iraqi refugees who were trying to cross the border with Poland illegally, pushed literally¹⁵ by the Belarusian military. So it was not a migration crisis. It was an artificially created conflict. The reaction of the Polish government was absolutely correct and justifiable¹⁶.

FADEL: So what do you say to critics that want to paint it as something racial, frankly¹⁷?

MAGIEROWESKI: It was definitely not. I would like to remind you that, after the Chechen Wars in the '90s, we admitted about 60,000 refugees from Chechnya because we came to the conclusion that it was our moral obligation to help those people who were oppressed, again, by the Russian invaders¹⁸.

FADEL: Now, we've talked a lot about the humanitarian crisis, which Poland is on the front line of, but you're also on the front line of this actual war.

MAGIEROWESKI: Of the military crisis.

FADEL: Of the military crisis, exactly. And some of these strikes have been 30 miles from the Polish border. How concerned are you about a wider war engulfing¹⁹ Poland and Europe?

MAGIEROWESKI: Of course, we are pretty much concerned about this ongoing²⁰ war. I think that we are dealing²¹ now with pure evil, and this has always been a very consistent stance of Poland, of the Polish authorities. We know Russia very well. We had foresight²². We have always been trying to alert the world that those near-imperial ambitions of the people who are sitting in the Kremlin are really dangerous to the rest of the world. Ukraine is not the last item on Mr. Putin's menu, but if we have more U.S. and NATO troops on Polish soil, if we have more military equipment, if we are better armed - also as NATO member - the more secure we will feel in the future.

FADEL: What does that look like? Being better armed, having more troops - I mean, what are the asks here?

MAGIEROWESKI: We have purchased F-35s. We have purchased Abrams tanks. We are arming ourselves because we know very well - we are acutely aware of the fact that, in spite of being a member of NATO, we have to be ready to defend ourselves. I don't believe in a major confrontation²³ between NATO and Russia right now, and that's why we have to arm Ukraine. We have to deliver them the most sophisticated weapons.

FADEL: Should they be getting fighter jets? I mean, that was something that, over...

MAGIEROWESKI: I will explain this to you.

FADEL: ...A bunch of diplomatic missteps...

MAGIEROWESKI: Yeah.

FADEL: ...It didn't go through.

MAGIEROWESKI: There was a controversy²⁴...

FADEL: Right.

MAGIEROWESKI: ...Also surrounding our Soviet-made aircraft. They account - those MiGs that you have just mentioned account for one-third of our fleet of combat aircraft. We can't deplete²⁵ our fleet by one-third. It would be absolutely absurd and unacceptable in terms of our defense²⁶ policy, and that's why we came up with that proposal to put those aircraft at the disposal of NATO. Those are not only Polish aircraft. Those are also NATO aircraft, and it should be a unanimous decision and a common effort of all NATO member countries to decide whether the Ukrainians should be supplied with these aircraft.

FADEL: So do you agree with the decision so far that these fighter jets have not gone to Ukraine?

MAGIEROWESKI: The proposal is still on the table. Again, we should move on and find the right solutions - how to arm Ukraine in the most effective manner - because I don't believe in a diplomatic solution of this conflict. I do believe in a military solution - namely, a definitive²⁷ and total defeat of the Russian Army in Ukraine.

FADEL: But how does a military victory come about without also a diplomatic path?

MAGIEROWESKI: Believe me, that transfer of military equipment to Ukraine has been massive over the last few weeks, and they are capable - they will be capable of crushing the Russian Army. And if we talk about a hypothetical end of those hostilities²⁸, there are some conditions that the international community should set to Russia. They should withdraw all their troops, not only from Ukraine proper, but also from those territories annexed²⁹ and occupied since 2014 - from Crimea and from those two Eastern republics. They should pay war reparations to Ukraine. Ukraine is now devastated³⁰. And all those war criminals who have committed unspeakable crimes in Ukraine should be tried and sentenced.

FADEL: And my last question - and you got at this a little bit, but is Poland preparing for war?

MAGIEROWESKI: We are always prepared for war. And of course, in light of this growing aggressiveness of the Russian Federation³¹ and President Putin himself, we need to be even better prepared. On a final note, he wants to win the Cold War - not the new Cold War. He wants to win the Cold War which ended at the beginning of the '90s.

FADEL: I guess that's why I just can't imagine a situation in which Vladimir Putin says, OK, I'll accept defeat in the way that this has gone.

MAGIEROWESKI: Maybe he will not accept defeat, but maybe his society will understand that that's enough. That's enough.

FADEL: Ambassador, a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much for your time.

MAGIEROWESKI: Thank you very much.

FADEL: Marek Magieroweski is Poland's ambassador to the United States.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

1 diplomat   

n.外交官，外交家；能交际的人，圆滑的人

参考例句：

• The diplomat threw in a joke, and the tension was instantly relieved.那位外交官插进一个笑话，紧张的气氛顿时缓和下来。
• He served as a diplomat in Russia before the war.战前他在俄罗斯当外交官。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 humanitarian   

n.人道主义者，博爱者，基督凡人论者

参考例句：

• She has many humanitarian interests and contributes a lot to them.她拥有很多慈善事业，并作了很大的贡献。
• The British government has now suspended humanitarian aid to the area.英国政府现已暂停对这一地区的人道主义援助。

4 solidarity   

n.团结；休戚相关

参考例句：

• They must preserve their solidarity.他们必须维护他们的团结。
• The solidarity among China's various nationalities is as firm as a rock.中国各族人民之间的团结坚如磐石。

5 remarkable   

adj.显著的，异常的，非凡的，值得注意的

参考例句：

• She has made remarkable headway in her writing skills.她在写作技巧方面有了长足进步。
• These cars are remarkable for the quietness of their engines.这些汽车因发动机没有噪音而不同凡响。

6 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

7 integration   

n.一体化，联合，结合

参考例句：

• We are working to bring about closer political integration in the EU.我们正在努力实现欧盟內部更加紧密的政治一体化。
• This was the greatest event in the annals of European integration.这是欧洲统一史上最重大的事件。

8 schooling   

n.教育；正规学校教育

参考例句：

• A child's access to schooling varies greatly from area to area.孩子获得学校教育的机会因地区不同而大相径庭。
• Backward children need a special kind of schooling.天赋差的孩子需要特殊的教育。

9 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

10 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

11 epidemics   

n．流行病

参考例句：

• Reliance upon natural epidemics may be both time-consuming and misleading. 依靠天然的流行既浪费时间，又会引入歧途。
• The antibiotic epidemics usually start stop when the summer rainy season begins. 传染病通常会在夏天的雨季停止传播。

12 migration   

n.迁移，移居，（鸟类等的）迁徙

参考例句：

• Swallows begin their migration south in autumn.燕子在秋季开始向南方迁移。
• He described the vernal migration of birds in detail.他详细地描述了鸟的春季移居。

13 conflagration   

n.建筑物或森林大火

参考例句：

• A conflagration in 1947 reduced 90 percent of the houses to ashes.1947年的一场大火，使90%的房屋化为灰烬。
• The light of that conflagration will fade away.这熊熊烈火会渐渐熄灭。

14 asylum   

n.避难所，庇护所，避难

参考例句：

• The people ask for political asylum.人们请求政治避难。
• Having sought asylum in the West for many years,they were eventually granted it.他们最终获得了在西方寻求多年的避难权。

15 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

16 justifiable   

adj.有理由的，无可非议的

参考例句：

• What he has done is hardly justifiable.他的所作所为说不过去。
• Justifiable defense is the act being exempted from crimes.正当防卫不属于犯罪行为。

17 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

18 invaders   

入侵者，侵略者，侵入物( invader的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• They prepared to repel the invaders. 他们准备赶走侵略军。
• The family has traced its ancestry to the Norman invaders. 这个家族将自己的世系追溯到诺曼征服者。

19 engulfing   

adj.吞噬的v.吞没，包住( engulf的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• A photographer had fused the lights,engulfing the entire house darkness. 一位摄影师把电灯的保险丝烧断了，使整栋房子陷于黑暗当中。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• A professional photographer had fused the lights,engulfing the entire house in darkness. 一位职业摄影师把保险丝烧断了使整所房子陷于黑暗当中。 来自辞典例句

20 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

21 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

22 foresight   

n.先见之明，深谋远虑

参考例句：

• The failure is the result of our lack of foresight.这次失败是由于我们缺乏远虑而造成的。
• It required a statesman's foresight and sagacity to make the decision.作出这个决定需要政治家的远见卓识。

23 confrontation   

n.对抗，对峙，冲突

参考例句：

• We can't risk another confrontation with the union.我们不能冒再次同工会对抗的危险。
• After years of confrontation,they finally have achieved a modus vivendi.在对抗很长时间后，他们最后达成安宁生存的非正式协议。

24 controversy   

n.争论，辩论，争吵

参考例句：

• That is a fact beyond controversy.那是一个无可争论的事实。
• We ran the risk of becoming the butt of every controversy.我们要冒使自己在所有的纷争中都成为众矢之的的风险。

25 deplete   

v.弄空，排除，减轻，减少...体液，放去...的血

参考例句：

• Most native mammal species have been severely depleted.大多数本地哺乳动物的数量都已经大大减少了。
• Elastic collisions deplete very little of the electron's energy.弹性碰撞中电子减少的能量非常少。

26 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

27 definitive   

adj.确切的，权威性的；最后的，决定性的

参考例句：

• This book is the definitive guide to world cuisine.这本书是世界美食的权威指南。
• No one has come up with a definitive answer as to why this should be so.至于为什么该这样，还没有人给出明确的答复。

28 hostilities   

n.战争；敌意(hostility的复数)；敌对状态；战事

参考例句：

• Mexico called for an immediate cessation of hostilities. 墨西哥要求立即停止敌对行动。
• All the old hostilities resurfaced when they met again. 他们再次碰面时，过去的种种敌意又都冒了出来。

29 annexed   

[法] 附加的，附属的

参考例句：

• Germany annexed Austria in 1938. 1938年德国吞并了奥地利。
• The outlying villages were formally annexed by the town last year. 那些偏远的村庄于去年正式被并入该镇。

30 devastated   

v.彻底破坏( devastate的过去式和过去分词)；摧毁；毁灭；在感情上（精神上、财务上等）压垮adj.毁坏的；极为震惊的

参考例句：

• The bomb devastated much of the old part of the city. 这颗炸弹炸毁了旧城的一大片地方。
• His family is absolutely devastated. 他的一家感到极为震惊。

31 federation   

n.同盟，联邦，联合，联盟，联合会

参考例句：

• It is a federation of 10 regional unions.它是由十个地方工会结合成的联合会。
• Mr.Putin was inaugurated as the President of the Russian Federation.普京正式就任俄罗斯联邦总统。