美国国家公共电台 NPR--John Legend wants to transform the criminal justice system, one DA at a time

John Legend wants to transform the criminal justice system, one DA at a time

Transcript¹

John Legend is an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony award-winning entertainer, who recently kicked off a Las Vegas residency and just released a new single. But he's also a well-known activist² and advocate for criminal justice reform and voting rights who has supported a number of Democratic candidates over the years.

He's also throwing his support behind a number of progressive prosecutors⁴ who are running on a promise to reform a criminal justice system that they say is outdated⁵ and that disproportionately punishes and over incarcerates⁶ people of color.

Legend, who has a mammoth⁷ following on Twitter, recently shined a spotlight⁸ on district attorney races in Tennessee, North Carolina, Oregon and California – arguing that these elections are "crucial to improving our criminal legal system."

Most progressive prosecutors, like the ones Legend is endorsing⁹, support eliminating the death penalty, limiting prosecutions¹⁰ for low-level offenses¹¹ and ending cash bail¹².

"The fact that these prosecutors are going into office with the intent, with the goal of making communities safer but also making them healthier and stronger and not overusing incarceration¹³ as a tool to do so, makes them more progressive than what we've had in the past," Legend said.

In an interview with NPR's Juana Summers, Legend discusses progressive prosecutors, the criminal justice system and President Biden's approach to policing.

These interview highlights contain some additional content that did not air in the broadcast version.

Interview highlights

Races for district attorney are not the kind of campaigns that typically get a ton of attention. Was there a moment that made you want to focus on prosecutors?

Prosecutors have so much influence over who gets charged, over what they get charged with, over what kinds of punishment is pursued, what kinds of jail time and bail amounts. And for far too long, they were running unopposed, running without much attention devoted¹⁴ to their elections and running basically with kind of a one-note appeal: "We're tough on crime. We're going to lock more people up. We're going to put the bad guys in jail." And that's all they had to say.

So we decided¹⁵ we should start shining a light on these local elections and we should start encouraging the idea that we could have more progressive prosecutors in place in these communities. And it would actually make a big difference when we're pursuing the goal of "decarceration" and investing in other solutions that would help our communities become stronger and healthier.

When I looked online and saw the candidates that you were tweeting about, they're often women or people of color – and we should just be frank here that historically, prosecutors, district attorneys, they have largely been white men. What benefit do you see to expanding the types of people who are in these jobs?

Look at someone like Kim Fox, who we've supported twice and she's been reelected in Cook County, which is Chicago. She knows her community so well. She's a Black woman and she has seen all sides of our criminal legal system. She's a lawyer. She's a prosecutor³, but she also knows family members and community members that have been on the other side of things who have been locked up. She knows folks who have been survivors¹⁶ and victims of crime, and she knows what it's like to grow up in some of our most challenged communities. Someone with that perspective, someone who has an intimate knowledge of the community that she's serving and that she comes from, they're coming to it with an experience and a level of empathy that I think is really helpful.

When you approach the job of being a prosecutor more holistically¹⁷ and more progressively, it means you're thinking about the effects of all of this. You're not just trying to lock more people up for more time. You're thinking about the families that those folks leave behind and the negative cycle that that continues when you have one or two of your parents locked up and what effect that will have on the kid and whether or not they'll be more likely to commit crime in the future because they've lost a parent to incarceration.

So you're thinking about more of those things. You have a level of empathy and understanding that is greater and more connected to the community. And I think it enables you to make better decisions that will be holistically more beneficial for the community.

We can't have this conversation without talking a bit about crime rates, which are on the rise in many places across this country. Politically, many opponents of progressive prosecutors seek to draw a link between the policies of those prosecutors and rising crime rates. They're essentially¹⁸ making the point that these sort of progressive approaches are fostering lawlessness in communities. What do you say to those people?

Crime really did go up during the pandemic, and it went up in communities all across the country. Poverty went up, unemployment went up during 2020 and 2021. And so a lot of these things were big macro conditions that changed in all of our communities, whether they had a progressive prosecutor or not. And the evidence shows that there's no link between having more progressive prosecutors and crime going up any more so than it went up in communities that didn't have one. But crime has gone up. And so we have to be empathetic to folks who are seeing more homelessness in their communities. They're seeing more despair, they're seeing more mental health issues, more drug dependency in their communities. And they're saying, we've got to do something about this.

We need to empathize with folks who are feeling that and seeing that because it is real. The solution isn't, we need to be more punitive¹⁹ as a society. The solution is, we need to work on all these issues that cause despair, that cause poverty, that cause food insecurity, that cause housing insecurity. Focus on those areas, invest in those areas and not in a more punitive criminal legal system.

You were among the artists and entertainers who performed during inaugural²⁰ events for President Joe Biden and Vice²¹ President Kamala Harris. I want to ask you about how the president and his administration have positioned themselves on these issues. We heard the president recently urging cities and states to spend more unspent COVID relief money to pay for more crime prevention programs and hiring more officers.

I don't agree with that recommendation. We already spend more money on policing in America than any other country spends on their military, aside from the United States and China. So if spending the most on policing were the solution to make us safe, we would already be the safest country in the world. If spending more on incarceration were going to be the solution to make us more safe, we would be the safest country in the world, but we're not.

So maybe we should consider spending that money on things that will be more edifying²² and actually prevent more crime. Things like fighting food insecurity, dealing²³ with people's mental health issues, dealing with people with substance abuse issues, finding other interventions²⁴ that will make our communities safer and healthier. We already are trying the idea of spending the most on policing and the most on jailing and incarcerating²⁵ people. Why don't we try some other ideas?

We should just acknowledge here that we're having this conversation in the wake of the mass shooting in the predominantly Black part of Buffalo²⁶, N.Y. and that has sparked and renewed this conversation about safety and racial disparities in policing, which seems tied very closely to the work that you're doing.

We can't talk about any of this without talking about guns. So if you think about the things that we are OK with in America. We spend all this money on policing, we spend all this money on jailing and incarcerating people, but we also have such a permissive gun culture that we have more guns in this country than human beings.

So when we compare ourselves to other nations and we're wondering why we're not the safest country in the world despite spending so much on policing, despite spending so much on incarceration, perhaps the reason is that so many people have such easy access to guns and such a range of guns with such a range of capacities available to anybody who wants them.

Why is an 18 year old walking around with an AR-15? Why is an 18 year old being exposed to this "great replacement²⁷" theory on Fox News and on other areas on the internet and in throughout culture without there being some kind of check on the availability of that kind of indoctrination and rhetoric²⁸? Why? Why? Why? So if we really want to be safer, we need to look at gun culture. We need to look at some of this hate speech that is is grooming²⁹ future terrorists and really focus on those areas – focus on actually making us safer and making our communities healthier.

When you think about the span of your career so far, your advocacy, your activism. Who are the models that have shaped your approach?

Harry³⁰ Belafonte, Paul Robeson, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Nina Simone, Aretha Franklin. Some of them were more visible, some of them were behind the scenes funding activists³¹ and funding the movement, and some of them made music that spoke³² directly to it. Some of them again were more behind the scenes. But all of them knew that they were in a unique position. They were in a unique position of power and influence. And they used that influence to fight for justice and make change and fight for equality.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 activist   

n.活动分子，积极分子

参考例句：

• He's been a trade union activist for many years.多年来他一直是工会的积极分子。
• He is a social activist in our factory.他是我厂的社会活动积极分子。

3 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

4 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

5 outdated   

adj.旧式的，落伍的，过时的；v.使过时

参考例句：

• That list of addresses is outdated,many have changed.那个通讯录已经没用了，许多地址已经改了。
• Many of us conform to the outdated customs laid down by our forebears.我们许多人都遵循祖先立下的过时习俗。

6 incarcerates   

n.监禁，禁闭( incarcerate的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Currently Russia incarcerates almost one million convicts at any given moment. 现在的俄罗斯无论什么时候都关押着几乎100万个罪犯。 来自互联网

7 mammoth   

n.长毛象；adj.长毛象似的，巨大的

参考例句：

• You can only undertake mammoth changes if the finances are there.资金到位的情况下方可进行重大变革。
• Building the new railroad will be a mammoth job.修建那条新铁路将是一项巨大工程。

8 spotlight   

n.公众注意的中心，聚光灯，探照灯，视听，注意，醒目

参考例句：

• This week the spotlight is on the world of fashion.本周引人瞩目的是时装界。
• The spotlight followed her round the stage.聚光灯的光圈随着她在舞台上转。

9 endorsing   

v.赞同( endorse的现在分词 )；在（尤指支票的）背面签字；在（文件的）背面写评论；在广告上说本人使用并赞同某产品

参考例句：

• Yet Communist leaders are also publicly endorsing religion in an unprecedented way. 不过，共产党领导层对宗教信仰的公开认可也是以前不曾有过的。 来自互联网
• Connecticut Independent Senator Joseph Lieberman is endorsing Republican Senator John McCain. 康涅狄格州独立派参议员约瑟夫。列波曼将会票选共和议员约翰。麦凯恩。 来自互联网

10 prosecutions   

起诉( prosecution的名词复数 )； 原告； 实施； 从事

参考例句：

• It is the duty of the Attorney-General to institute prosecutions. 检察总长负责提起公诉。
• Since World War II, the government has been active in its antitrust prosecutions. 第二次世界大战以来，政府积极地进行着反对托拉斯的检举活动。 来自英汉非文学 - 政府文件

11 offenses   

n.进攻( offense的名词复数 )；（球队的）前锋；进攻方法；攻势

参考例句：

• It's wrong of you to take the child to task for such trifling offenses. 因这类小毛病责备那孩子是你的不对。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Thus, Congress cannot remove an executive official except for impeachable offenses. 因此，除非有可弹劾的行为，否则国会不能罢免行政官员。 来自英汉非文学 - 行政法

12 bail   

v.舀（水），保释；n.保证金，保释，保释人

参考例句：

• One of the prisoner's friends offered to bail him out.犯人的一个朋友答应保释他出来。
• She has been granted conditional bail.她被准予有条件保释。

13 incarceration   

n.监禁，禁闭；钳闭

参考例句：

• He hadn't changed much in his nearly three years of incarceration. 在将近三年的监狱生活中，他变化不大。 来自辞典例句
• Please, please set it free before it bursts from its long incarceration! 请你，请你将这颗心释放出来吧！否则它会因长期的禁闭而爆裂。 来自辞典例句

14 devoted   

adj.忠诚的，忠实的，热心的，献身于...的

参考例句：

• He devoted his life to the educational cause of the motherland.他为祖国的教育事业贡献了一生。
• We devoted a lengthy and full discussion to this topic.我们对这个题目进行了长时间的充分讨论。

15 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

16 survivors   

幸存者，残存者，生还者( survivor的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The survivors were adrift in a lifeboat for six days. 幸存者在救生艇上漂流了六天。
• survivors clinging to a raft 紧紧抓住救生筏的幸存者

17 holistically   

adv.holistic（整体的，全盘的）的副词形式

参考例句：

• Menu items and dialogs, when they are translated, to be considered holistically. 在翻译菜单项和对话框时，需要全盘考虑，确保翻译的界面保持整体的一致性很重要。 来自互联网
• If we examine this entity holistically, we can discover how incredible it really is. 如果我们整体检查这实体，我们可以发现它真的是多么让人难以置信。 来自互联网

18 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

19 punitive   

adj.惩罚的，刑罚的

参考例句：

• They took punitive measures against the whole gang.他们对整帮人采取惩罚性措施。
• The punitive tariff was imposed to discourage tire imports from China.该惩罚性关税的征收是用以限制中国轮胎进口的措施。

20 inaugural   

adj.就职的；n.就职典礼

参考例句：

• We listened to the President's inaugural speech on the radio yesterday.昨天我们通过无线电听了总统的就职演说。
• Professor Pearson gave the inaugural lecture in the new lecture theatre.皮尔逊教授在新的阶梯讲堂发表了启用演说。

21 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

22 edifying   

adj.有教训意味的，教训性的，有益的v.开导，启发( edify的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Young students are advised to read edifying books to improve their mind. 建议青年学生们读一些陶冶性情的书籍，以提高自己的心智。 来自辞典例句
• This edifying spectacle was the final event of the Governor's ball. 这个有启发性的表演便是省长的舞会的最后一个节目了。 来自辞典例句

23 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

24 interventions   

n.介入，干涉，干预( intervention的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Economic analysis of government interventions deserves detailed discussion. 政府对经济的干预应该给予充分的论述。 来自辞典例句
• The judge's frequent interventions made a mockery of justice. 法官的屡屡干预是对正义的践踏。 来自互联网

25 incarcerating   

vt.监禁，禁闭（incarcerate的现在分词形式）

参考例句：

26 buffalo   

n.(北美)野牛；(亚洲)水牛

参考例句：

• Asian buffalo isn't as wild as that of America's. 亚洲水牛比美洲水牛温顺些。
• The boots are made of buffalo hide. 这双靴子是由水牛皮制成的。

27 replacement   

n.取代，替换，交换；替代品，代用品

参考例句：

• We are hard put to find a replacement for our assistant.我们很难找到一个人来代替我们的助手。
• They put all the students through the replacement examination.他们让所有的学生参加分班考试。

28 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

29 grooming   

n. 修饰, 美容，（动物）梳理毛发

参考例句：

• You should always pay attention to personal grooming. 你应随时注意个人仪容。
• We watched two apes grooming each other. 我们看两只猩猩在互相理毛。

30 harry   

vt.掠夺，蹂躏，使苦恼

参考例句：

• Today,people feel more hurried and harried.今天，人们感到更加忙碌和苦恼。
• Obama harried business by Healthcare Reform plan.奥巴马用医改掠夺了商界。

31 activists   

n.（政治活动的）积极分子，活动家( activist的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• His research work was attacked by animal rights activists . 他的研究受到了动物权益维护者的抨击。
• Party activists with lower middle class pedigrees are numerous. 党的激进分子中有很多出身于中产阶级下层。 来自《简明英汉词典》

32 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。