美国国家公共电台 NPR Ali Velshi: In An Age Of ＂Alternative Facts,＂ How Do We Know What's True?

 

GUY RAZ, HOST:

It's the TED¹ Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. And on the show today, ideas about manipulation, about truth and lies and what happens when sometimes it's hard for people to see the difference.

ALI VELSHI: I think manipulation is trying to get somebody to think a certain way or act a certain way. And I think that certainly in my line of work, it's a step beyond what most journalists think their role is.

RAZ: This is Ali Velshi.

VELSHI: I am an anchor and co-host of a couple of shows at MSNBC and NBC News.

RAZ: I mean, so, I mean, when it comes to your self-image as a reporter, as a journalist, like, I mean, I'm assuming you think of yourself as a - somebody who's trying to seek the truth.

VELSHI: Right, an arbiter², a truth-seeker, to some degree an advocate for my viewers or readers or listeners. So it was almost the opposite, in my mind, of manipulation. It was the idea that if I can give you the fullest picture, the most information and answer the toughest questions or ask them on your behalf, you will make better decisions using your own faculties³. And so, to me, it didn't occur to me that manipulation, when I started this industry, was a role that journalists could play.

RAZ: But for the most part, that's all changed in the past few years with the rise of made-up news stories on the Internet...

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

UNIDENTIFIED JOURNALIST: A fake story alleging⁴ Hillary Clinton and her campaign chairman, John Podesta, were involved in a child sex ring.

RAZ: ...And the spread of misinformation...

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

KELLYANNE CONWAY: Alternative facts to that. But the point remains⁵...

CHUCK TODD: Wait a minute. Alternative facts?

RAZ: ...And the election of a president who's declared war on the mainstream⁶ media.

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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP⁷: A few days ago, I called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. They are the enemy of the people.

RAZ: So now that we're living in an era of fake news, how do we even begin to understand who's manipulating whom? Here's Ali Velshi on the TED stage.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

VELSHI: Part of the problem is that when the president of the United States is encouraging his supporters to believe that the media is not just out of touch or somewhat ineffective but it's actually lying, it causes a problem. And that's just one in a range of problems that are caused by this fake news phenomenon. At its lowest level, it's a time suck. It confuses you. It causes you to spend your time trying to discern between fake news and real news. And I think over time, it can blunt your ability to actually do so.

I'll give you an example. A BuzzFeed study said that in 2016, of the top 20 fake news stories on Facebook, they had 8.7 million shares, comments, reactions. Of the top 20 real news stories by major news organizations, they had 1.7 million fewer. So fake news is crowding out real news. It means that journalists like me, instead of following other stories and giving you new journalism⁸ and telling you stories about new things, we're busy debunking⁹ myths. And that's part of the problem that we've got.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RAZ: When did you start to notice that just objectively false news stories, lies sort of masking as real news stories, were happening and were starting to influence people?

VELSHI: So I had known, as a journalist, that there were websites that were peddling¹⁰ misinformation or false information. And I'd certainly known it from other countries. So, for instance, I covered - not in person, but from here - I covered the war in Rwanda. And that was almost entirely¹¹ fueled by what we now know to be fake news.

It was radio stations that would perpetuate¹² myths against a particular ethnic¹³ group and would do that. And when I studied it more, I found out that that happened in Nazi¹⁴ Germany a lot. And it's actually pretty pervasive¹⁵. But we assumed that with the degree of digital penetration¹⁶ we have in the United States, people had the wherewithal to say, oh, that's a lie or this is a kooky conspiracy¹⁷.

RAZ: 'Cause I can just look it up. I could just look it up.

VELSHI: I could look it up, right. And one thing that I have learned is that a lot of people don't triangulate. When I say triangulate, they don't have three independent reference points in which to say, oh, that's interesting. I listen to NPR. I read the Wall Street Journal. And I listen to this radio show. And only the radio show is saying that Hillary Clinton is running a sex slave ring out of a basement of a pizza parlor¹⁸ in suburban¹⁹ D.C. Strange that the other ones wouldn't cover that because you'd think that was a good story. And if you don't know that there are other sources who are reporting on something differently or not reporting on it at all, you don't necessarily know that your news source might not be telling you the truth. And not only that, speaking of manipulation, you are now so beholden to that news source, you're so into it that you will be convinced that the others are lying to you.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

VELSHI: On December 4, I tweeted this out. And notice at the bottom it was retweeted 11,000 times. I tweeted - breaking news, the U.S. Army Corps²⁰ of Engineers halts the Dakota Access Pipeline²¹ work, telling the Standing²² Rock Reservation that the current route for the pipeline will be denied. This was a very controversial issue. I had this news earlier than most people did, which is why it spread so many times because people wanted to distribute this information. But one of the first responses I got to this tweet was, what's your source? Now, come on. I'm not a journalism student. I'm a veteran journalist in my 24th year of this business.

If I spread breaking news that is false or wrong, I am going to at the very least get disciplined and I could actually get fired. But increasingly, I am getting pushback on social media from people who accuse me of purveying²³ fake news. There will - if you put in my name on, you know, my handle and fake news - #fakenews - you'll see things show up. And when you de-legitimize journalism and when you de-legitimize facts and when you do that, you create a vacuum in one of the most important checks in civil, economic and political discourse²⁴.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

VELSHI: It's very, very dangerous. It worries me a great deal because, you know, in years gone by, I actually worried about being accurate. Now I worry about being accurate as much as I always did, possibly more so. But I also worry about the accusation²⁵ that comes on Twitter with the hashtag #fakenews. Anybody who doesn't agree with my perspective now labels me a liar²⁶. And how do I deal with that?

RAZ: Ali, I hear you. I hear your commitment and your passion and all of these things you're saying, but it seems like you're on the losing side. It seems like manipulative news is winning.

VELSHI: Yeah. And as a numbers guy, I would say that that's quite possible. But they are winning because the parties in play have not acknowledged that they're winning. They have not sort of said it. Facebook is starting to face that reality. Google is looking at it. We're looking at the money that is made. It just pays better to have fake news. Fake news takes none of the resources that it takes for me to do a story, doesn't need the producers. If you're making stuff up, you don't actually need fact checkers and researchers and people like that.

It is much cheaper to make fake news. And it's much more lucrative²⁷ because you don't have to actually make people want to read the headline because you've invented the headline. So once we all decide that this is really dangerous, Facebook will build the right algorithms and they'll re-do their revenue streams so that they're not rewarding that kind of dishonest behavior. We'll all start to figure it out. And I think we'll be able to shore up our end and push forward and change things.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

VELSHI: Remember what journalism is meant to do. It has two purposes. The first one is to bear witness, to simply be there to say that something is happening. But the second one is more important, it's to hold power to account. And together, let's not go down a road where we end up in a world where not only are we not speaking truth to power but we're not even able to discern the truth. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

RAZ: Ali Velshi. He's an anchor and co-host at MSNBC. You can see Ali's full talk at ted.npr.org. On the show today, ideas about how our actions, our thoughts, even our memories can be manipulated.

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1 ted   

vt.翻晒，撒，撒开

参考例句：

• The invaders gut ted the village.侵略者把村中财物洗劫一空。
• She often teds the corn when it's sunny.天好的时候她就翻晒玉米。

2 arbiter   

n.仲裁人，公断人

参考例句：

• Andrew was the arbiter of the disagreement.安德鲁是那场纠纷的仲裁人。
• Experiment is the final arbiter in science.实验是科学的最后仲裁者。

3 faculties   

n.能力( faculty的名词复数 )；全体教职员；技巧；院

参考例句：

• Although he's ninety, his mental faculties remain unimpaired. 他虽年届九旬，但头脑仍然清晰。
• All your faculties have come into play in your work. 在你的工作中，你的全部才能已起到了作用。 来自《简明英汉词典》

4 alleging   

断言，宣称，辩解( allege的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• His reputation was blemished by a newspaper article alleging he'd evaded his taxes. 由于报上一篇文章声称他曾逃税，他的名誉受到损害。
• This our Peeress declined as unnecessary, alleging that her cousin Thornhill's recommendation would be sufficient. 那位贵人不肯，还说不必，只要有她老表唐希尔保荐就够了。

5 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

6 mainstream   

n.（思想或行为的）主流；adj.主流的

参考例句：

• Their views lie outside the mainstream of current medical opinion.他们的观点不属于当今医学界观点的主流。
• Polls are still largely reflects the mainstream sentiment.民调还在很大程度上反映了社会主流情绪。

7 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

8 journalism   

n.新闻工作，报业

参考例句：

• He's a teacher but he does some journalism on the side.他是教师，可还兼职做一些新闻工作。
• He had an aptitude for journalism.他有从事新闻工作的才能。

9 debunking   

v.揭穿真相，暴露( debunk的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• The debunking of religion has been too successful. 对于宗教的揭露太成功了。 来自互联网

10 peddling   

忙于琐事的，无关紧要的

参考例句：

• He worked as a door-to-door salesman peddling cloths and brushes. 他的工作是上门推销抹布和刷子。
• "If he doesn't like peddling, why doesn't he practice law? "要是他不高兴卖柴火，干吗不当律师呢？

11 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

12 perpetuate   

v.使永存，使永记不忘

参考例句：

• This monument was built to perpetuate the memory of the national hero.这个纪念碑建造的意义在于纪念民族英雄永垂不朽。
• We must perpetuate the system.我们必须将此制度永久保持。

13 ethnic   

adj.人种的，种族的，异教徒的

参考例句：

• This music would sound more ethnic if you played it in steel drums.如果你用钢鼓演奏，这首乐曲将更具民族特色。
• The plan is likely only to aggravate ethnic frictions.这一方案很有可能只会加剧种族冲突。

14 Nazi   

n.纳粹分子，adj.纳粹党的，纳粹的

参考例句：

• They declare the Nazi regime overthrown and sue for peace.他们宣布纳粹政权已被推翻，并出面求和。
• Nazi closes those war criminals inside their concentration camp.纳粹把那些战犯关在他们的集中营里。

15 pervasive   

adj.普遍的；遍布的，(到处)弥漫的；渗透性的

参考例句：

• It is the most pervasive compound on earth.它是地球上最普遍的化合物。
• The adverse health effects of car exhaust are pervasive and difficult to measure.汽车尾气对人类健康所构成的有害影响是普遍的，并且难以估算。

16 penetration   

n.穿透，穿人，渗透

参考例句：

• He is a man of penetration.他是一个富有洞察力的人。
• Our aim is to achieve greater market penetration.我们的目标是进一步打入市场。

17 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

18 parlor   

n.店铺，营业室；会客室，客厅

参考例句：

• She was lying on a small settee in the parlor.她躺在客厅的一张小长椅上。
• Is there a pizza parlor in the neighborhood?附近有没有比萨店？

19 suburban   

adj.城郊的，在郊区的

参考例句：

• Suburban shopping centers were springing up all over America. 效区的商业中心在美国如雨后春笋般地兴起。
• There's a lot of good things about suburban living.郊区生活是有许多优点。

20 corps   

n.(通信等兵种的)部队；(同类作的)一组

参考例句：

• The medical corps were cited for bravery in combat.医疗队由于在战场上的英勇表现而受嘉奖。
• When the war broke out,he volunteered for the Marine Corps.战争爆发时，他自愿参加了海军陆战队。

21 pipeline   

n.管道，管线

参考例句：

• The pipeline supplies Jordan with 15 per cent of its crude oil.该管道供给约旦15%的原油。
• A single pipeline serves all the houses with water.一条单管路给所有的房子供水。

22 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

23 purveying   

v.提供，供应( purvey的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• She was not above purveying make-up tips through ladies' columns in newspapers. 她根本不屑于向各大报社的女性专栏供稿。 来自互联网

24 discourse   

n.论文，演说；谈话；话语；vi.讲述，著述

参考例句：

• We'll discourse on the subject tonight.我们今晚要谈论这个问题。
• He fell into discourse with the customers who were drinking at the counter.他和站在柜台旁的酒客谈了起来。

25 accusation   

n.控告，指责，谴责

参考例句：

• I was furious at his making such an accusation.我对他的这种责备非常气愤。
• She knew that no one would believe her accusation.她知道没人会相信她的指控。

26 liar   

n.说谎的人

参考例句：

• I know you for a thief and a liar!我算认识你了，一个又偷又骗的家伙！
• She was wrongly labelled a liar.她被错误地扣上说谎者的帽子。

27 lucrative   

adj.赚钱的，可获利的

参考例句：

• He decided to turn his hobby into a lucrative sideline.他决定把自己的爱好变成赚钱的副业。
• It was not a lucrative profession.那是一个没有多少油水的职业。