美国国家公共电台 NPR Judd Apatow On His Characters: 'If Everyone Is Mature, There Is No Comedy'

 

KELLY MCEVERS, HOST:

Judd Apatow started writing stories from his own life into his comedy on the late-90s TV show "Freaks and Geeks." It was about a kid named Bill Haverchuck. When Judd Apatow was young, he says he would make himself hamburgers or grilled¹ cheese sandwiches and watch talk shows to get through his parents' divorce. So he wrote a scene for "Freaks and Geeks" where Bill comes home from school and turns on the TV.

JUDD APATOW: And he just watches Gary Shandling do standup on "The Dinah Shore Show" and slowly goes from being depressed² to laughing his ass³ off. And after I made that, Jay Katzen, who's our producer and one of the directors, said that's the best thing you've ever done, and it's the most personal thing you've ever done. And that changed how I approach all of my work. I just realized for the first time that my stories might be interesting.

MCEVERS: When Apatow was young, he moved here to L.A. and did standup. But then he says he had more success with writing. Apatow and I sat down the other morning to talk about his movies, about the HBO show "Girls," which he executive produced, about politics and about his latest project. We started with the bromance movies he's made like "Superbad" and "40-year-old Virgin⁴," which he says are sometimes misunderstood.

APATOW: You always have to start people in an immature⁵ place or in a place where they need to learn a lesson. And there are always people who don't quite understand that if everyone is mature, there is no comedy.

MCEVERS: (Laughter) Which just wouldn't be funny.

APATOW: It's like asking Jerry...

MCEVERS: If like Seth Rogen started out as like this fully-formed - you know?

APATOW: Yeah. It's like asking Jerry Lewis not to go, lady. Like, that's the whole thing for female characters, for male characters. I was just reading an interview with Lena Dunham in Rolling Stone magazine, and she was talking about how some people don't get that she wrote the joke of the show - the idea of white female entitlement - that we were making fun of that.

MCEVERS: He's talking about the show "Girls." Lena Dunham is the creator and star. It's now in its final season. Apatow says the show about four young women in Brooklyn definitely has some haters.

APATOW: If a woman says, I love myself; I love my body; I'm comfortable with my life, comfortable with my mistakes, and I deserve a seat at every table and everything should be completely equal, there are guys who lose their minds. And she certainly has decided⁶ to go right at all of that and to be outspoken⁷. And I think she's been an incredible inspiration to millions of women.

MCEVERS: One thing I just recently read is that you are one of the writers for the, you know, sort of now infamous⁸ speech that President Obama gave in 2011 at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. We actually have a clip of it. We're going to listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

BARACK OBAMA: No, seriously. Just recently, in an episode of "Celebrity⁹ Apprentice¹⁰" at the steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from Omaha Steaks. And there was a lot of blame to go around, but you, Mr. Trump¹¹, recognized that the real problem was a lack of leadership. And so, ultimately, you didn't blame little John or Meatloaf. You fired Gary Busey. And these are the kind of decisions that would keep me up at night.

MCEVERS: Of course, this is President Obama making fun of Donald Trump. And, you know, the camera pans to Donald Trump. He's obviously very upset. He's not laughing.

APATOW: Here's the thing. He runs the country like he ran "The Apprentice." The premise¹² of "The Apprentice" is a crazy rich guy has his daughter and his son oversee¹³ celebrities¹⁴ doing tasks. And then they come back to him, and they tell him how they did. So in every episode he's like, how did - how'd Meatloaf do, Ivanka? And then she says, Meatloaf really did a great presentation. And then he makes some impulsive¹⁵ decision about who to fire based on not being there, not really even understanding anything. Except now he's the president, and he's literally¹⁶ going, hey, Ivanka, how did North Korea do on that ballistic missile test? What should we do? Did you ask your husband?

MCEVERS: So you have very strong feelings about this administration.

APATOW: Why you working me up in the morning.

MCEVERS: (Laughter).

APATOW: It's like so early.

MCEVERS: (Laughter) I know. I'm sorry. You're obviously - you know, you favor the Democrats¹⁷.

APATOW: It's not favoring the Democrats. There's no logic¹⁸ in how he thinks. I don't want someone who's the president who says 3 to 5 million people voted illegally when there's zero proof. It's a crazy person.

MCEVERS: You can say this stuff. But I guess the real impact - right? - is, like, a couple of things like how you spend your money and the kind of stuff you make, right? I mean, it's how do you think about yourself in this moment and what you can do.

APATOW: As a Jewish man who has no interest in Judaism whatsoever¹⁹, there's something in me that says when bad things have happened in the past, people were supposed to get more active and speak up and prevent them. That's what's important to me is that everybody - and I don't care what side you're on. You can disagree with me, but everyone better get active. Everybody better vote and be thoughtful.

MCEVERS: Are you doing that? Are you like doing registration²⁰ stuff? Are you doing activism like organizing? Are you...

APATOW: Well, I do benefits. I did a benefit for the ACLU a few weeks ago. We did a benefit for the USO last week in New York. I try to work with people like Rock the Vote, and it was effective. I think we were part of a campaign that got about a million and a half new people registered.

It would be so irresponsible not to speak up. I don't know what I would do in my home and in my life if I didn't rant²¹ a little bit and as thoughtfully as I can with some humor.

MCEVERS: Yeah, I was going to say, how's it going to affect your work like projects in the future? Like, do you think that's going to seep²² in?

APATOW: I don't think it will. I think my instinct creatively is to make things that are very funny and happy and silly. And in this moment where the world is very scary, I feel like my role is to make people laugh really hard.

MCEVERS: (Laughter).

APATOW: And it doesn't make me think I want to write a new TV series about the Trump surrogates. Although, I keep telling the world someone should make that show. The Trump surrogates. It's free. Go take it.

MCEVERS: (Laughter) I want to talk about your latest show, "Crashing." It's coming out soon on HBO. And I want to be honest. When I first heard, I was like, a show about a white guy trying to make it as a comedian²³? And I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say that. I'm just - you know, I wanted to know...

APATOW: It's just because I'm not Asian. People are like dying for this show about an Asian comic written by Judd. But, you know, the show is multicultural²⁴. There's a lot of different types of people on this show.

MCEVERS: Yeah, it's not even the white thing. It's like another show about a comedian dude trying to make it in the world.

APATOW: Well, you know, the show is also about God and religion. It's about a guy who's very religious. He marries the first woman that he's ever dated in his life. She's unhappy with him and cheats on him. And it forces him to pursue his love of comedy. So he moves to New York. He's not good at all.

MCEVERS: Right, right, right, I was going - can we listen to a clip really quick?

APATOW: Yes, please.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "CRASHING")

PETE HOLMES: (As Pete) I feel like I won an award. Like, you brought me up like I won something. I think it's weird²⁵ when you win an award, you're supposed to point to god if you thank him. You go, thank, God, and you point to the sky because that's where God is. But we're on planet. The sky is that way, as well, right? So I want to win an award like a Golden Globe, so I can go up and just be like, I want to thank my lord and savior Jesus Christ.

MCEVERS: (Laughter) He points sideways and like...

APATOW: You pick the one clip that only works with a visual joke.

MCEVERS: You can see it. I mean, yeah, he's like pointing sideways.

APATOW: That's an NPR blooper. He says I want to thank God, then points down. But what's interesting about the show is that he's a very religious person hanging out with dark and wounded comedians²⁶ like Artie Lange. So within this attempt to pursue his dream, he's also talking about his spirituality and trying to keep his soul while hanging out with a lot of people who do a lot of things that maybe some people should not do.

MCEVERS: How much of your life is in there, too? I mean, we talked about you doing standup.

APATOW: Yeah. I mean, my love of comedy is certainly in there, also how uncomfortable I get around successful people. When I was young I wanted to be at the table with the good comics but terrified to talk, terrified to make a joke. All these characters - the 40-year-old virgin - they all have some part of my Bill Haverchuck nerdy terror.

MCEVERS: Right, going back to that Garry Shandling scene. Well, Judd Apatow, thank you so much for coming in today.

APATOW: Well, thank you.

MCEVERS: Judd Apatow's show "Crashing" premieres on HBO on Sunday.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE WHO SONG, "I'M ONE")

1 grilled   

adj. 烤的, 炙过的, 有格子的 动词grill的过去式和过去分词形式

参考例句：

• He was grilled for two hours before the police let him go. 他被严厉盘查了两个小时后，警察才放他走。
• He was grilled until he confessed. 他被严加拷问，直到他承认为止。

2 depressed   

adj.沮丧的，抑郁的，不景气的，萧条的

参考例句：

• When he was depressed,he felt utterly divorced from reality.他心情沮丧时就感到完全脱离了现实。
• His mother was depressed by the sad news.这个坏消息使他的母亲意志消沉。

3 ass   

n.驴；傻瓜，蠢笨的人

参考例句：

• He is not an ass as they make him.他不象大家猜想的那样笨。
• An ass endures his burden but not more than his burden.驴能负重但不能超过它能力所负担的。

4 virgin   

n.处女，未婚女子；adj.未经使用的；未经开发的

参考例句：

• Have you ever been to a virgin forest?你去过原始森林吗？
• There are vast expanses of virgin land in the remote regions.在边远地区有大片大片未开垦的土地。

5 immature   

adj.未成熟的，发育未全的，未充分发展的

参考例句：

• Tony seemed very shallow and immature.托尼看起来好像很肤浅，不夠成熟。
• The birds were in immature plumage.这些鸟儿羽翅未全。

6 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

7 outspoken   

adj.直言无讳的，坦率的，坦白无隐的

参考例句：

• He was outspoken in his criticism.他在批评中直言不讳。
• She is an outspoken critic of the school system in this city.她是这座城市里学校制度的坦率的批评者。

8 infamous   

adj.声名狼藉的，臭名昭著的，邪恶的

参考例句：

• He was infamous for his anti-feminist attitudes.他因反对女性主义而声名狼藉。
• I was shocked by her infamous behaviour.她的无耻行径令我震惊。

9 celebrity   

n.名人，名流；著名，名声，名望

参考例句：

• Tom found himself something of a celebrity. 汤姆意识到自己已小有名气了。
• He haunted famous men, hoping to get celebrity for himself. 他常和名人在一起, 希望借此使自己获得名气。

10 apprentice   

n.学徒，徒弟

参考例句：

• My son is an apprentice in a furniture maker's workshop.我的儿子在一家家具厂做学徒。
• The apprentice is not yet out of his time.这徒工还没有出徒。

11 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

12 premise   

n.前提；v.提论，预述

参考例句：

• Let me premise my argument with a bit of history.让我引述一些史实作为我立论的前提。
• We can deduce a conclusion from the premise.我们可以从这个前提推出结论。

13 oversee   

vt.监督，管理

参考例句：

• Soldiers oversee the food handouts.士兵们看管着救济食品。
• Use a surveyor or architect to oversee and inspect the different stages of the work.请一位房产检视员或建筑师来监督并检查不同阶段的工作。

14 celebrities   

n.（尤指娱乐界的）名人( celebrity的名词复数 )；名流；名声；名誉

参考例句：

• He only invited A-list celebrities to his parties. 他只邀请头等名流参加他的聚会。
• a TV chat show full of B-list celebrities 由众多二流人物参加的电视访谈节目

15 impulsive   

adj.冲动的，刺激的；有推动力的

参考例句：

• She is impulsive in her actions.她的行为常出于冲动。
• He was neither an impulsive nor an emotional man,but a very honest and sincere one.他不是个一冲动就鲁莽行事的人，也不多愁善感.他为人十分正直、诚恳。

16 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

17 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

18 logic   

n.逻辑(学)；逻辑性

参考例句：

• What sort of logic is that?这是什么逻辑？
• I don't follow the logic of your argument.我不明白你的论点逻辑性何在。

19 whatsoever   

adv.（用于否定句中以加强语气）任何；pron.无论什么

参考例句：

• There's no reason whatsoever to turn down this suggestion.没有任何理由拒绝这个建议。
• All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them.你想别人对你怎样，你就怎样对人。

20 registration   

n.登记，注册，挂号

参考例句：

• Marriage without registration is not recognized by law.法律不承认未登记的婚姻。
• What's your registration number?你挂的是几号？

21 rant   

v.咆哮；怒吼；n.大话；粗野的话

参考例句：

• You can rant and rave at the fine,but you'll still have to pay it.你闹也好，骂也好，罚金还是得交。
• If we rant on the net,the world is our audience.如果我们在网络上大声嚷嚷，全世界都是我们的听众。

22 seep   

v.渗出，渗漏；n.渗漏，小泉，水（油）坑

参考例句：

• My anger began to seep away.我的怒火开始消下去了。
• If meteoric water does not evaporate or run overland,it may seep directly into the ground.如果雨水不从陆地蒸发和流走的话，就可能直接渗入地下。

23 comedian   

n.喜剧演员；滑稽演员

参考例句：

• The comedian tickled the crowd with his jokes.喜剧演员的笑话把人们逗乐了。
• The comedian enjoyed great popularity during the 30's.那位喜剧演员在三十年代非常走红。

24 multicultural   

adj.融合多种文化的，多种文化的

参考例句：

• Children growing up in a multicultural society.在多元文化社会中长大的孩子们。
• The school has been attempting to bring a multicultural perspective to its curriculum.这所学校已经在尝试将一种多元文化视角引入其课程。

25 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

26 comedians   

n.喜剧演员，丑角( comedian的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The voice was rich, lordly, Harvardish, like all the boring radio comedians'imitations. 声音浑厚、威严，俨然是哈佛出身的气派，就跟无线电里所有的滑稽演员叫人已经听腻的模仿完全一样。 来自辞典例句
• He distracted them by joking and imitating movie and radio comedians. 他用开玩笑的方法或者模仿电影及广播中的滑稽演员来对付他们。 来自辞典例句