美国国家公共电台 NPR David Mamet On 'Chicago': 'These Were The Stories You Grew Up With'

David Mamet On 'Chicago': 'These Were The Stories You Grew Up With'

SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

Chicago - David Mamet. Maybe that's all that needs to be said to set up the first novel in more than 20 years by the celebrated¹ and controversial playwright² and screenwriter who so often made the city a signature in his works. It's a story of the mob era - hits ordered and adversaries³ iced, hootch in trucks that winds up in teapots and gunsels, madames, made men and molls.

David Mamet joins us now from the studios of NPR West. Thanks so much for being with us.

DAVID MAMET: Oh, you're welcome. It's a pleasure to be here.

SIMON: What made this - these characters, this story a novel in your mind?

MAMET: You know, I was thinking a lot about historical novels. And Mario Puzo wrote "The Godfather." And then, of course, he and Francis made it into a movie, which is rather different than the book. These were the stories that they grew up with - that was the stuff of being an Italian-American whose grandparents had been connected with the immigrant generation and thus with the mob, just like Margaret Mitchell grew up with stories of the Old South.

And in Chicago, in my generation - I was born in 1947 - you grew up with stories of the mob because my parents were the immigrant generation, and all the parents of my friends were the immigrant generation, and those were the people whom they were associated with or were their adversaries in starting off in America. So when you grew up in Chicago in the '50s, these were the stories you grew up with.

SIMON: Let me ask you about a few people. Mike Hodge, your central character, is a reporter but an admirable guy. (Laughter) And I'll point to two things. He fought in France. He flew in France during World War I, and he covered the fire at the All Saints Catholic school. How did both of those events stay with him and, in a sense, make him who he is?

MAMET: Well, I don't know. I mean, the whole trick to art is what you leave out for - of course. Because I've been looking at the Olympics - maybe you have, too - and there are some figure skaters who do everything correctly, and you admire their athleticism⁴. And there are others that you just - your jaw⁵ opens, and you're struck by their grace because they aren't adding anything to it. You know, when there were a lot of pianists who can play Bach, but there's only one Glenn Gould. And if you listen to Glenn Gould, you think, hey, I could do that - because he left everything out - and that's what art is.

SIMON: I was at the point in the novel of being kind of reconciled to the idea - and maybe this is the Chicagoan in me - that anybody who got plugged in this story probably deserved it. But then, of course, Annie Walsh - and you are reminded that in mobs and gangs, the innocent suffer. She's an extraordinary young woman Mike Hodge is deeply in love with.

MAMET: Yeah. It's a love story, you know? And it's - and he's found the love of his life, and she gets assassinated⁶ in a mob killing⁷. And he spends the book trying to figure out how he can live with his guilt⁸ for having gotten her killed - because he's involved in reporting in the mob - and how he can go on in a world where she doesn't exist. And one of the answers he comes up with is drink yourself to death. And the other answer is, find out who did it and kill them.

SIMON: There's a theme in the book that a lot of people get ahead by figuring out how to (laughter) - how to corner the franchise⁹ for sin.

MAMET: Well, it's true. I mean, you know, as I'm over in Culver City, and there's a huge billboard¹⁰ about marijuana delivered directly to your door, OK? So what does government do? OK? When they can't make money or gain votes from combating sin, they take over the franchise. Oh, you can't play the lottery¹¹. You can't play the numbers. Oops, but, you know, we're going to take over the lottery. So one of the themes of the book is a Chicagoan way of looking at the world, which is nothing's on the level - which, as far as I can tell, is true (laughter).

SIMON: I wouldn't contradict it. How do you write Mamet dialogue?

MAMET: I wrote a book once called "Some Freaks," which is kind of how I always thought of myself. It's what I do all day - sit alone in a room and dream up stuff and write it down. I'm doing it - just doing the best I can. Like, somebody said to me, how do I write like you? I said, you know, I have to. You don't.

SIMON: (Laughter).

MAMET: You know?

SIMON: That's a good answer. But you're an artist. I mean, you do this for a living. There must be some - if not do's and don'ts, there must be some feelings you've developed about how to do it.

MAMET: Well, the question is, do I keep working on this piece of garbage and hope that something will come up? Or do I put it aside and take up something else? And, sometimes, the answer is one. Sometimes, the answer's the other. But the only thing that I know is what Anthony Trollope said. He says, what does every writer need? He said he needs cobbler's wax to stick him to his chair.

SIMON: (Laughter) In other words, just keep - one word after another.

MAMET: Well, yeah. And just keep staring at it until you get so sick of yourself you might write something - because one doesn't know the difference between this is a terrible idea and there's something so deep inside of me that every atom of my existence is resisting it because that might be genius. You don't know because not only does a good writer throw out what the others keep. A good writer keeps what the others throw out.

SIMON: David Mamet - his novel, first in more than 20 years - "Chicago." Thanks so much for being with us.

MAMET: You're so welcome. It was great talking to you, Scott.

(SOUNDBITE OF BENNY GOODMAN'S "SING SING SING")

1 celebrated   

adj.有名的，声誉卓著的

参考例句：

• He was soon one of the most celebrated young painters in England.不久他就成了英格兰最负盛名的年轻画家之一。
• The celebrated violinist was mobbed by the audience.观众团团围住了这位著名的小提琴演奏家。

2 playwright   

n.剧作家，编写剧本的人

参考例句：

• Gwyn Thomas was a famous playwright.格温·托马斯是著名的剧作家。
• The playwright was slaughtered by the press.这位剧作家受到新闻界的无情批判。

3 adversaries   

n.对手，敌手( adversary的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• That would cause potential adversaries to recoil from a challenge. 这会迫使潜在的敌人在挑战面前退缩。 来自辞典例句
• Every adversaries are more comfortable with a predictable, coherent America. 就连敌人也会因有可以预料的，始终一致的美国而感到舒服得多。 来自辞典例句

4 athleticism   

n.运动竞赛，崇尚运动，竞技热

参考例句：

• He brings defense. He brings talent. He brings athleticism. That's a lot. “他带来的防御，他带来了人才，他带来了身体，这是很多”。 来自互联网
• Each of these sports isn't won through sheer athleticism alone. 每个体育项目无法凭借纯粹的运动能力而获胜。 来自互联网

5 jaw   

n.颚，颌，说教，流言蜚语；v.喋喋不休，教训

参考例句：

• He delivered a right hook to his opponent's jaw.他给了对方下巴一记右钩拳。
• A strong square jaw is a sign of firm character.强健的方下巴是刚毅性格的标志。

6 assassinated   

v.暗杀( assassinate的过去式和过去分词 )；中伤；诋毁；破坏

参考例句：

• The prime minister was assassinated by extremists. 首相遭极端分子暗杀。
• Then, just two days later, President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas. 跟着在两天以后，肯尼迪总统在达拉斯被人暗杀。 来自辞典例句

7 killing   

n.巨额利润；突然赚大钱，发大财

参考例句：

• Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
• Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。

8 guilt   

n.犯罪；内疚；过失，罪责

参考例句：

• She tried to cover up her guilt by lying.她企图用谎言掩饰自己的罪行。
• Don't lay a guilt trip on your child about schoolwork.别因为功课责备孩子而使他觉得很内疚。

9 franchise   

n.特许，特权，专营权，特许权

参考例句：

• Catering in the schools is run on a franchise basis.学校餐饮服务以特许权经营。
• The United States granted the franchise to women in 1920.美国于1920年给妇女以参政权。

10 billboard   

n.布告板，揭示栏，广告牌

参考例句：

• He ploughed his energies into his father's billboard business.他把精力投入到父亲的广告牌业务中。
• Billboard spreads will be simpler and more eye-catching.广告牌广告会比较简单且更引人注目。

11 lottery   

n.抽彩；碰运气的事，难于算计的事

参考例句：

• He won no less than ￡5000 in the lottery.他居然中了5000英镑的奖券。
• They thought themselves lucky in the lottery of life.他们认为自己是变幻莫测的人生中的幸运者。