美国国家公共电台 NPR Why Edward Norton Moved 'Motherless Brooklyn' To The New York Of Robert Moses

 

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

Edward Norton's new movie, "Motherless Brooklyn," is the first he wrote, directed and stars in. It's set in New York in the 1950s, a noir detective film. Norton plays Lionel, a private eye with Tourette's syndrome¹.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MOTHERLESS BROOKLYN")

EDWARD NORTON: (As Lionel) I got something wrong with my head. That's the first thing to know. It's like having glass in the brain. I can't stop picking things apart, twisting 'em around, reassembling 'em. Words and sounds, especially. It's like an itch² that has to be scratched.

KELLY: He twitches³, blurts⁴ out words, as is typical of Tourette's. He's also brilliant, mind like a tape recorder, which comes in handy as he investigates the murder of his mentor⁵ and friend. When Edward Norton stopped by our studios at NPR West, I started by asking him why he had taken the story, which is based on a novel set in the 1990s, and shifted it to the '50s, and whether that changed the way he wrote Lionel.

NORTON: In the book, all his old pals⁶ from the orphanage⁷, they call him freak show, right? And it had - it feels like another time. Like, it doesn't feel like the sensitized, sort of politically correct world that we live in. You know, it's hard-boiled, and it seemed like suddenly to me that Lionel, if we went to the '50s, Lionel could be a really terrific vehicle for going deep into the murk of what happened in New York in that time.

KELLY: You are playing a character with a very prominent disability who is treated cruelly by just about everybody in the movie. Was that more possible situating it in the '50s when it just - people weren't as politically correct, when it was OK to call somebody a spastic, which is a word your character calls himself in the movie?

NORTON: Yeah. Not a word you hear today.

KELLY: Yeah.

NORTON: You know...

KELLY: I mean, it's - you hear the word now, and it makes you cringe.

NORTON: Yeah. It makes you cringe.

KELLY: But said in the '50s, you think that's probably...

NORTON: That's right.

KELLY: ...That's probably how they talked.

NORTON: In institutional settings, I think that's how they referred to people who had either palsies or things like Tourette's where they twitched⁸. Tourette's syndrome, many dimensions of it are fascinating. It's not a mental illness at all. It's a neurological disorder⁹. Lionel does not have a mental disorder. He is not, like, limited.

KELLY: No. As I said, he's brilliant.

NORTON: He's brilliant and sensitive. And actually, in his own way, a street-hardened Brooklyn tough guy of an era when people weren't taking care of each other, when American values had shifted from sort of pre-war, Depression-era commitment to the idea that American life was about lifting each other up to a kind of post-war, we're now the superpower - you know, obsession¹⁰ with strength. And what happened to the city, the brutal¹¹ push for modernization¹² and progress was prioritized over communities. And there was a lot of cost. There was a lot of pain and damage done that we're still dealing¹³ with.

KELLY: Yeah. There's a gorgeous scene in a nightclub in Harlem. Lionel references that his mom used to be able to calm him down when she would just touch him. And there's this scene in the nightclub in Harlem. Another woman, who Lionel is maybe becoming interested, in touches him. And they're dancing. And you see him calm.

(SOUNDBITE OF WYNTON MARSALIS' "BLUES¹⁴ WALK")

KELLY: That actual music is Wynton Marsalis playing. Is that right?

NORTON: It is. That's a composition that was Clifford Brown and Max Roach, called "Blues Walk." It was a staple¹⁵ of kind of that hard bop era...

KELLY: Yeah.

NORTON: ...In the '50s. Because the story takes us into this very atmospheric¹⁶ jazz club in north Harlem.

(SOUNDBITE OF WYNTON MARSALIS' "BLUES WALK")

NORTON: Interestingly, I had a whole chapter of - in my college life of, you know, my go-to to try to, like, create a seductive mood when I was in college was to put on Wynton Marsalis, called "Intimacy¹⁷ Calling." And it had this picture of Wynton in a hat with his feet up and his horn in his hand. And I had a long period where I imagined that I might be perceived that way if I turned the lights down low enough. So when...

KELLY: Sorry. I got to ask. Did it work? Did the women buy it?

NORTON: Never.

KELLY: Never. OK.

NORTON: I was going to say, when - I told him when I met him, I said, you know, you were my go-to, and you never came through for me...

KELLY: (Laughter).

NORTON: Not once. You are not the closer.

KELLY: But you're not holding a grudge¹⁸. And here he is in your movie.

NORTON: No. No. Because - well, he paid off his debt by doing this film with me.

KELLY: There you go. He owed you.

NORTON: Yeah. (Laughter).

KELLY: The movie tells this story that's about endemic racism¹⁹ in New York in the '50s. There's one detail that your character, Lionel, stumbles on that will stick with me. He discovers that the city was deliberately²⁰ building bridges too low because buses, which is what a lot of people of color were relying on to get around, they couldn't get to beaches. They couldn't get to public spaces that the city was building. Is that true? Did that really happen?

NORTON: Yeah. Yeah. It's actually documented in not only Robert Caro's book about Robert Moses, called, "The Power Broker," but it's - I think it's referenced in the Burns series "New York." You know, the assumption was that minorities didn't own as many cars and that when the new parkways were built to these grand public beaches to help people escape the rat race and inspire the mind, right, there was all this language that made people go, wow, these are great gifts to the public brought by selfless public servants. But then with great intention, they limited the access to those public assets.

KELLY: All right. We have been circling around the Alec Baldwin character, and I want to go there. You have cast him as Moses Randolph, this corrupt²¹ city planner, who, his critics say - and I think it's pretty clear from the movie - he's trying to drive poor families out of neighborhoods he wants to build in in New York. I want to play a little bit from the climactic confrontation²² with your character, Lionel. This is Moses Randolph explaining his world view.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MOTHERLESS BROOKLYN")

ALEC BALDWIN: (As Moses Randolph) Do you have the first inkling how power works? Power is feeling, knowing, that you can do whatever you want, and not one person can stop you. And if I want to build highways while the rest of the country is broke, I'll punch through any damn neighborhood I want. If some Negro slum is where I'm going to put my federal project or the off-ramp of my bridge, well, the goody-goods can shrink and moan all day long.

KELLY: Edward Norton, I have to ask because we're talking New York real estate, we are talking a larger-than-life character obsessed²³ with power who is being played by Alec Baldwin...

NORTON: (Laughter).

KELLY: ...Is there is there an intentional²⁴ reference here to Donald Trump²⁵?

NORTON: No. Fairly emphatically no, in the sense that I finished writing this in 2012.

KELLY: Pre-Trump.

NORTON: Yeah. Well, Donald Trump was a game show host. I would say President Trump is a game show host, also. It's just a more damaging game that he's playing.

KELLY: But did you change - well, I mean, because this movie's coming out in 2019, did you change the script?

NORTON: Yeah.

KELLY: You had to be aware that people would look at Alec Baldwin, who we all know from "Saturday Night Live," and think, oh, my God...

NORTON: Sure.

KELLY: There he is.

NORTON: The thing is that the character that Alec plays is a genius. He masks his power to the degree that everybody thinks he's the parks commissioner²⁶. I was much less interested in what I would call clownish, Mussolini-like autocracy²⁷ and more interested in the idea that the much bigger danger is when people amass²⁸ power that we didn't give them and we can't see it. That actually is the way noir at its best tends to function, as a mechanism²⁹ for saying, we're going to look at what's going on in the shadows under American life. When we're not looking at what's going on, we're in real, real danger.

KELLY: Edward Norton. He wrote, directed and starred in the new movie "Motherless Brooklyn."

Edward Norton, thank you so much.

NORTON: Pleasure.

1 syndrome   

n.综合病症；并存特性

参考例句：

• The Institute says that an unidentified virus is to blame for the syndrome. 该研究所表示,引起这种综合症的是一种尚未确认的病毒。
• Results indicated that 11 fetuses had Down syndrome. 结果表明有11个胎儿患有唐氏综合征。

2 itch   

n.痒，渴望，疥癣；vi.发痒，渴望

参考例句：

• Shylock has an itch for money.夏洛克渴望发财。
• He had an itch on his back.他背部发痒。

3 twitches   

n.（使）抽动， （使）颤动， （使）抽搐( twitch的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• No response, just a flutter of flanks and a few ear twitches. 没反应，只有胁腹和耳朵动了几下。 来自互联网
• BCEF(50,100 mg·kg~-1 ) could distinctly increase the head-twitch number in the 5-HTP induced head-twitches test. BCEF50、100mg·kg-1可明显增加5羟色胺酸诱导甩头小鼠的甩头次数。 来自互联网

4 blurts   

v.突然说出，脱口而出( blurt的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• He blurts out all he hears. 他漏嘴说出了他听到的一切。 来自辞典例句
• If a user blurts out an interesting idea, ask "What problem would that solve for you?" 如果用户不假思索地冒出一个有趣的想法，则询问他：“这可以解决哪些问题？” 来自互联网

5 mentor   

n.指导者，良师益友；v.指导

参考例句：

• He fed on the great ideas of his mentor.他以他导师的伟大思想为支撑。
• He had mentored scores of younger doctors.他指导过许多更年轻的医生。

6 pals   

n.朋友( pal的名词复数 )；老兄；小子；（对男子的不友好的称呼）家伙

参考例句：

• We've been pals for years. 我们是多年的哥们儿了。
• CD 8 positive cells remarkably increased in PALS and RP(P CD8+细胞在再生脾PALS和RP内均明显增加(P 来自互联网

7 orphanage   

n.孤儿院

参考例句：

• They dispensed new clothes to the children in the orphanage.他们把新衣服发给孤儿院的小孩们。
• They gave the proceeds of the sale to the orphanage.他们把销售的收入给了这家孤儿院。

8 twitched   

vt.& vi.（使）抽动，（使）颤动（twitch的过去式与过去分词形式）

参考例句：

• Her lips twitched with amusement. 她忍俊不禁地颤动着嘴唇。
• The child's mouth twitched as if she were about to cry. 这小孩的嘴抽动着，像是要哭。 来自《简明英汉词典》

9 disorder   

n.紊乱，混乱；骚动，骚乱；疾病，失调

参考例句：

• When returning back,he discovered the room to be in disorder.回家后，他发现屋子里乱七八糟。
• It contained a vast number of letters in great disorder.里面七零八落地装着许多信件。

10 obsession   

n.困扰，无法摆脱的思想(或情感)

参考例句：

• I was suffering from obsession that my career would be ended.那时的我陷入了我的事业有可能就此终止的困扰当中。
• She would try to forget her obsession with Christopher.她会努力忘记对克里斯托弗的迷恋。

11 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。

12 modernization   

n.现代化，现代化的事物

参考例句：

• This will help us achieve modernization.这有助于我们实现现代化。
• The Chinese people are sure to realize the modernization of their country.中国人民必将实现国家现代化。

13 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

14 blues   

n.抑郁，沮丧；布鲁斯音乐

参考例句：

• She was in the back of a smoky bar singing the blues.她在烟雾弥漫的酒吧深处唱着布鲁斯歌曲。
• He was in the blues on account of his failure in business.他因事业失败而意志消沉。

15 staple   

n.主要产物，常用品，主要要素，原料，订书钉，钩环；adj.主要的，重要的；vt.分类

参考例句：

• Tea is the staple crop here.本地产品以茶叶为大宗。
• Potatoes are the staple of their diet.土豆是他们的主要食品。

16 atmospheric   

adj.大气的，空气的；大气层的；大气所引起的

参考例句：

• Sea surface temperatures and atmospheric circulation are strongly coupled.海洋表面温度与大气环流是密切相关的。
• Clouds return radiant energy to the surface primarily via the atmospheric window.云主要通过大气窗区向地表辐射能量。

17 intimacy   

n.熟悉，亲密，密切关系，亲昵的言行

参考例句：

• His claims to an intimacy with the President are somewhat exaggerated.他声称自己与总统关系密切，这有点言过其实。
• I wish there were a rule book for intimacy.我希望能有个关于亲密的规则。

18 grudge   

n.不满，怨恨，妒嫉；vt.勉强给，不情愿做

参考例句：

• I grudge paying so much for such inferior goods.我不愿花这么多钱买次品。
• I do not grudge him his success.我不嫉妒他的成功。

19 racism   

n.民族主义；种族歧视(意识)

参考例句：

• He said that racism is endemic in this country.他说种族主义在该国很普遍。
• Racism causes political instability and violence.种族主义道致政治动荡和暴力事件。

20 deliberately   

adv.审慎地；蓄意地；故意地

参考例句：

• The girl gave the show away deliberately.女孩故意泄露秘密。
• They deliberately shifted off the argument.他们故意回避这个论点。

21 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

22 confrontation   

n.对抗，对峙，冲突

参考例句：

• We can't risk another confrontation with the union.我们不能冒再次同工会对抗的危险。
• After years of confrontation,they finally have achieved a modus vivendi.在对抗很长时间后，他们最后达成安宁生存的非正式协议。

23 obsessed   

adj.心神不宁的,鬼迷心窍的,沉迷的

参考例句：

• He's obsessed by computers. 他迷上了电脑。
• The fear of death obsessed him throughout his old life. 他晚年一直受着死亡恐惧的困扰。

24 intentional   

adj.故意的，有意（识）的

参考例句：

• Let me assure you that it was not intentional.我向你保证那不是故意的。
• His insult was intentional.他的侮辱是有意的。

25 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

26 commissioner   

n.（政府厅、局、处等部门）专员，长官，委员

参考例句：

• The commissioner has issued a warrant for her arrest.专员发出了对她的逮捕令。
• He was tapped for police commissioner.他被任命为警务处长。

27 autocracy   

n.独裁政治，独裁政府

参考例句：

• The revolution caused the overthrow of the autocracy.这场革命导致了独裁政体的结束。
• Many poor countries are abandoning autocracy.很多贫穷国家都在放弃独裁统治。

28 amass   

vt.积累，积聚

参考例句：

• How had he amassed his fortune?他是如何积累财富的呢？
• The capitalists amass great wealth by exploiting workers.资本家剥削工人而积累了巨额财富。

29 mechanism   

n.机械装置；机构，结构

参考例句：

• The bones and muscles are parts of the mechanism of the body.骨骼和肌肉是人体的组成部件。
• The mechanism of the machine is very complicated.这台机器的结构是非常复杂的。