PBS高端访谈:美国南部邦联应该如何审视过去的联邦制度?

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: The wave of reactions to the Confederate Flag today reached into state capitols across the south. The governors of Virginia and North Carolina both called for taking the flag off special-order license¹ plates.

　　U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said a statue of Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy, should be taken out of that state's capitol rotunda². And, in Mississippi, the speaker of the statehouse called for the removal of the Confederate emblem³ from the state flag.

　　We use this moment to take a look at the South of today with Russell Moore, who is the president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics⁴ and Liberty Commission. Jack⁵ Hunter is a radio host and blogger in South Carolina who has used the identity the Southern Avenger⁶. And from Atlanta is Isabel Wilkerson. She's the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of “The Warmth of Other Suns,” about Southern black migration⁷.

　　And we welcome all three of you to the program.

　　Russell Moore, let me start with you.

　　What role does the Confederate Flag play in the identity of the South today, do you believe?

　　RUSSELL MOORE, Southern Baptist Convention: Well, I think Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol that causes a great deal of division and reminds us of a really hurtful legacy⁸ and past.

　　So, I think people see it in different ways. And I think what some people see in the Confederate Flag is a sense of Southern assertion that the South matters. So, for instance I was at a conference one time where the speaker, every time that he would reference saying something ignorant, would do it in a Southern accent.

　　I think there are some Southerners, black and white, who feel as though the rest of the country looks down on the South as uneducated and backward. And for some people, that was a symbol of defiance¹⁰ against that.

　　But it's really clear that the way the Confederate Battle Flag has been used, not only initially¹¹ in terms of the Confederate States of America, but in our more recent history in terms of terrorist acts against African-Americans, that this is a symbol that causes unnecessary division.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Jack Hunter, you wrote yesterday that you used to believe that it was possible to think of the Confederate Flag having — not having to do with racism¹², but you no longer think that's possible. Why is that? Why have you changed?

　　JACK HUNTER, Politics Editor, Rare.us: Well, because it's not possible, first of all.

　　But that's the mistake a lot of Confederate Flag defenders¹³ make, part of what Russell was saying. They say it's about states' right. They say it's about heritage. They say it's about everything you can possibly imagine that's honorable and good and decent, while ignoring this vast history of racial terrorism, from slavery, to the Ku Klux Klan, to Jim Crow, to a deranged¹⁴ man walking into a church in my hometown in South Carolina and murdering nine people in cold blood for the color of their skin.

　　All that is associated with the Confederate Flag. I think this is sort of a wakeup call for the nation and the South and maybe Charleston, where this all started, that that symbol does not mean to most Americans what it means to the people who admire it most. And the people who do admire it are probably smaller than ever, and the people who feel negatively toward the Confederate Flag are probably larger than ever.

　　It's time to move on. It's time for the flag to come down, because it just doesn't represent who we are as a people, as Americans anymore.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Isabel Wilkerson, I wouldn't of course ask you to speak for all African-Americans in the South, but how have you, your family members, people close to you, how have you looked upon the Confederate symbol?

　　ISABEL WILKERSON, Author, “The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic¹⁵ Story of America's Great Migration”: Well, as your other guest has indicated, it's a symbol of subjugation¹⁶, it's a symbol of pain and terror for generations.

　　I think many people in our country, we don't think about how long this institution was in place. It was in place for 12 generations. I mean, imagine how many greats you would have to aid to grandparent in order to cover that many families, generation after generation.

　　And so this is something that African-Americans are still dealing¹⁷ with to this day. When you think about just the very basic effort to try to trace one's genealogy¹⁸, you come to a stop as an African-American in this country for most African-Americans when it comes to enslavement. And that's how African-Americans still deal with this to this day.

　　This is actually quite real and very personal for many people.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Russell Moore, what do you think it means if the flag is no longer going to be a prominent or even a partial symbol of the history of the South, the story of the Confederacy?

　　RUSSELL MOORE: Well, I don't think that the story goes away. We have to remember our past sins, as well as our past glories, as a region and as a country.

　　What I do think it means is that the South recognizes now, starting to recognize now the darkness of some of that past and also the fact that the South doesn't just include white people. Southerners — to say that one is a Southerner doesn't simply mean that one is a white Southerner. We have great diversity in the South.

　　And so we care a lot about family in the South. And I think what's happening is not that we're kicking anybody out of the family reunion. We're saying that Robert E. Lee is part of our story, but so is Fannie Lou Hamer. And Stonewall Jackson is part of our story, but so is Martin Luther King. And I think that's an important development, and one that we should encourage.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Jack Hunter, is it possible to still appreciate the history, or to have any appreciation¹⁹ of the history, the heritage of the role of the Confederacy, and at the same time try to have an idea that is — frankly²⁰, that honors today the role that African-Americans play in the South?

　　JACK HUNTER: Sure.

　　And those have coexisted for a long time. The question is, what sort of a treatment should they receive that's more respectful to the majority? Sort of coming from that background where I defended that symbol for so many years, I think it's such a shame that people are so much more worried about being right than being decent.

　　And that's what a lot of this comes down. They want to be right. They want to make their point about what happened on a certain historical date, and you don't understand this.

　　I would, you know, tell anybody today, my fellow white Southerners who still defend that symbol, you don't have the right to tell a black American that they don't understand what that symbol means. It means something different to them than it means to you. And I think that's part of the conversation we're seeing in Charleston right now.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But you believe that's changing?

　　JACK HUNTER: I do. I think it's for the better. It won't be overnight, but I think is — this might be a historical moment right now, what we're seeing.

　　This tragedy, if there is a silver lining²¹ — I mean, I'm from Charleston, South Carolina. I wasn't — I was very happy, but not shocked, to see people coming together in my hometown, and I think maybe we can do that as a nation. I think we're changing the national conversation.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Isabel Wilkerson, what do you see when you look at the South and you begin to take the Confederacy clearly as part of the history, but when you take honoring the Confederacy, you begin the take that out of the South and the picture of the South today?

　　ISABEL WILKERSON: Well, I think we're at a karmic moment for the South, but for our country as a whole.

　　You think about the last four years, in which, historically speaking, we have been commemorating²² the sesquicentennial of the Civil War. South Carolina was the first state to secede²³ from the Union in the months leading up to the war. South Carolina was where the first shots were fired.

　　And then this past week, the massacre²⁴ at Mother Emanuel AME Church occurred on the night before Juneteenth, which is a sacred day for African-Americans, the day when the last enslaved people were set free in Texas, which was 2.5 years after the Emancipation²⁵ Proclamation.

　　So, this history is inescapable. And it seems as if we're coming full circle. And the history and, as it's playing itself out, even now, seems to be inevitable²⁶.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Russell Moore, for those who say — but, as you — I think you pointed²⁷ out a minute ago, what happened during the Civil War, the Confederacy is a part of Southern history. What do you say to those who say, well, I don't want to forget that; it's still there?

　　RUSSELL MOORE: Well, I think we can remember our past without valorizing parts of our past that we ought to see as wrong.

　　I heard someone say that concern over the flag is sensitivity to micro-aggressions, to which my response is to say that kidnapping and enslaving people, breaking up families, terrorizing families, if that's not a macro-aggression, I don't know what is. And the Battle Flag symbolizes²⁸ that and symbols matter.

　　Remember the debate that we had several years ago about burning the American flag. Burning an American flag does something. It communicates something. And so I think we can remember our history. We have to, or else we will fall right back into the same patterns, but to do so in a way that understands that where — we come from a fallen people, all of us.

　　And, as a Christian²⁹, the biggest problem with my family tree is not Jefferson Davis. It's Adam. I believe that we're all created in the image of God and we're all fallen sinners. And I think we can recognize that as we look back ward⁹ in history.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Jack Hunter, how should the rest of the country look upon the South now?

　　JACK HUNTER: Right now, they should look at us with some optimism.

　　I mean, I can't think of a tide change on this issue, anything even remotely close it to in the last few decades. And I think that's encouraging. I think that more Southerners than ever are understanding that this symbol doesn't represent the country, doesn't represent the region in the way it should.

　　That doesn't mean you can't honor your ancestors who fought for a political battle that is important. That doesn't mean that, but it does mean that you cannot say the symbol represents everyone. And that's — I think people are seeing happening in the South today.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Isabel Wilkerson, the rest of the country, how should they be looking at the South right now?

　　ISABEL WILKERSON: I think the South is, we should remember, a vital and important part of the rest of the country. And the country looks to the South, one would hope, for hopefully answers to how to deal with this enduring, ancient question, these tensions and conflicts that have cast a cloud over us for so long.

　　It would just be so wonderful if the answers could actually come from the South itself.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: We thank you, all three, for joining us.

　　JACK HUNTER: Thank you.

　　ISABEL WILKERSON: Thank you.

1 license   

n.执照，许可证，特许；v.许可，特许

参考例句：

• The foreign guest has a license on the person.这个外国客人随身携带执照。
• The driver was arrested for having false license plates on his car.司机由于使用假车牌而被捕。

2 rotunda   

n.圆形建筑物；圆厅

参考例句：

• The Capitol at Washington has a large rotunda.华盛顿的国会大厦有一圆形大厅。
• The rotunda was almost deserted today,dotted with just a few tourists.圆形大厅今天几乎没有多少人，只零星散布着几个游客。

3 emblem   

n.象征，标志；徽章

参考例句：

• Her shirt has the company emblem on it.她的衬衫印有公司的标记。
• The eagle was an emblem of strength and courage.鹰是力量和勇气的象征。

4 ethics   

n.伦理学；伦理观，道德标准

参考例句：

• The ethics of his profession don't permit him to do that.他的职业道德不允许他那样做。
• Personal ethics and professional ethics sometimes conflict.个人道德和职业道德有时会相互抵触。

5 jack   

n.插座，千斤顶，男人；v.抬起，提醒，扛举；n.（Jake）杰克

参考例句：

• I am looking for the headphone jack.我正在找寻头戴式耳机插孔。
• He lifted the car with a jack to change the flat tyre.他用千斤顶把车顶起来换下瘪轮胎。

6 avenger   

n. 复仇者

参考例句：

• "Tom Sawyer, the Black Avenger of the Spanish Main. “我乃西班牙海黑衣侠盗，汤姆 - 索亚。
• Avenger's Shield-0.26 threat per hit (0.008 threat per second) 飞盾-0.26仇恨每击（0.08仇恨每秒）

7 migration   

n.迁移，移居，（鸟类等的）迁徙

参考例句：

• Swallows begin their migration south in autumn.燕子在秋季开始向南方迁移。
• He described the vernal migration of birds in detail.他详细地描述了鸟的春季移居。

8 legacy   

n.遗产，遗赠；先人(或过去)留下的东西

参考例句：

• They are the most precious cultural legacy our forefathers left.它们是我们祖先留下来的最宝贵的文化遗产。
• He thinks the legacy is a gift from the Gods.他认为这笔遗产是天赐之物。

9 ward   

n.守卫，监护，病房，行政区，由监护人或法院保护的人（尤指儿童）；vt.守护，躲开

参考例句：

• The hospital has a medical ward and a surgical ward.这家医院有内科病房和外科病房。
• During the evening picnic,I'll carry a torch to ward off the bugs.傍晚野餐时，我要点根火把，抵挡蚊虫。

10 defiance   

n.挑战，挑衅，蔑视，违抗

参考例句：

• He climbed the ladder in defiance of the warning.他无视警告爬上了那架梯子。
• He slammed the door in a spirit of defiance.他以挑衅性的态度把门砰地一下关上。

11 initially   

adv.最初，开始

参考例句：

• The ban was initially opposed by the US.这一禁令首先遭到美国的反对。
• Feathers initially developed from insect scales.羽毛最初由昆虫的翅瓣演化而来。

12 racism   

n.民族主义；种族歧视(意识)

参考例句：

• He said that racism is endemic in this country.他说种族主义在该国很普遍。
• Racism causes political instability and violence.种族主义道致政治动荡和暴力事件。

13 defenders   

n.防御者( defender的名词复数 )；守卫者；保护者；辩护者

参考例句：

• The defenders were outnumbered and had to give in. 抵抗者寡不敌众，只能投降。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• After hard fighting,the defenders were still masters of the city. 守军经过奋战仍然控制着城市。 来自《简明英汉词典》

14 deranged   

adj.疯狂的

参考例句：

• Traffic was stopped by a deranged man shouting at the sky.一名狂叫的疯子阻塞了交通。
• A deranged man shot and killed 14 people.一个精神失常的男子开枪打死了14人。

15 epic   

n.史诗，叙事诗；adj.史诗般的，壮丽的

参考例句：

• I gave up my epic and wrote this little tale instead.我放弃了写叙事诗，而写了这个小故事。
• They held a banquet of epic proportions.他们举行了盛大的宴会。

16 subjugation   

n.镇压，平息，征服

参考例句：

• The Ultra-Leftist line was a line that would have wrecked a country, ruined the people, and led to the destruction of the Party and national subjugation. 极左路线是一条祸国殃民的路线，亡党亡国的路线。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• This afflicted German intelligence with two fatal flaws: inefficiency, and subjugation to a madman. 这给德国情报工作造成了两个致命的弱点，一个是缺乏效率，另一个是让一个疯子总管情报。 来自辞典例句

17 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

18 genealogy   

n.家系，宗谱

参考例句：

• He had sat and repeated his family's genealogy to her,twenty minutes of nonstop names.他坐下又给她细数了一遍他家族的家谱，20分钟内说出了一连串的名字。
• He was proficient in all questions of genealogy.他非常精通所有家谱的问题。

19 appreciation   

n.评价；欣赏；感谢；领会，理解；价格上涨

参考例句：

• I would like to express my appreciation and thanks to you all.我想对你们所有人表达我的感激和谢意。
• I'll be sending them a donation in appreciation of their help.我将送给他们一笔捐款以感谢他们的帮助。

20 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

21 lining   

n.衬里，衬料

参考例句：

• The lining of my coat is torn.我的外套衬里破了。
• Moss makes an attractive lining to wire baskets.用苔藓垫在铁丝篮里很漂亮。

22 commemorating   

v.纪念，庆祝( commemorate的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• He was presented with a scroll commemorating his achievements. 他被授予一幅卷轴，以表彰其所做出的成就。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The post office issued a series commemorating famous American entertainers. 邮局发行了一个纪念美国著名演艺人员的系列邮票。 来自互联网

23 secede   

v.退出，脱离

参考例句：

• They plotted to make the whole Mississippi Valley secede from the United States.他们阴谋策划使整个密西西比流域脱离美国。
• We won't allow Tibet to secede from China and become an independent nation.我们决不允许西藏脱离中国独立。

24 massacre   

n.残杀，大屠杀；v.残杀，集体屠杀

参考例句：

• There was a terrible massacre of villagers here during the war.在战争中，这里的村民惨遭屠杀。
• If we forget the massacre,the massacre will happen again!忘记了大屠杀，大屠杀就有可能再次发生！

25 emancipation   

n.（从束缚、支配下）解放

参考例句：

• We must arouse them to fight for their own emancipation. 我们必须唤起他们为其自身的解放而斗争。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• They rejoiced over their own emancipation. 他们为自己的解放感到欢欣鼓舞。 来自《简明英汉词典》

26 inevitable   

adj.不可避免的，必然发生的

参考例句：

• Mary was wearing her inevitable large hat.玛丽戴着她总是戴的那顶大帽子。
• The defeat had inevitable consequences for British policy.战败对英国政策不可避免地产生了影响。

27 pointed   

adj.尖的，直截了当的

参考例句：

• He gave me a very sharp pointed pencil.他给我一支削得非常尖的铅笔。
• She wished to show Mrs.John Dashwood by this pointed invitation to her brother.她想通过对达茨伍德夫人提出直截了当的邀请向她的哥哥表示出来。

28 symbolizes   

v.象征，作为…的象征( symbolize的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• The use of light and dark symbolizes good and evil. 用光明与黑暗来象征善与恶。
• She likes olive because It'symbolizes peace. 她喜欢橄榄色因为它象征着和平。 来自《简明英汉词典》

29 Christian   

adj.基督教徒的；n.基督教徒

参考例句：

• They always addressed each other by their Christian name.他们总是以教名互相称呼。
• His mother is a sincere Christian.他母亲是个虔诚的基督教徒。