PBS高端访谈:希拉里对TPP贸易协定持怀疑态度

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: The Clintons have had a tough time in Iowa. Candidate Bill Clinton lost the Democratic caucuses¹ here in 1992. Hillary Clinton lost to Barack Obama in 2008.

　　This time around, she is spending a lot of time in the Hawkeye State, today with students a town hall meeting at Cornell College in Mount Vernon.

　　And that's where I caught up with her this afternoon.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Secretary Hillary Clinton, thank you for talking with us.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Thank you so much, Judy. I'm glad to see you.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So let's start with the big announcement from President Obama this week about a trade deal.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Right.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: The Trans-Pacific Partnership². The U.S. and 11 other countries covering 40 percent of the global economy, 800 million consumers. It's already started a big battle between people who love free trade and people who care more about protectionism. Where do you come down?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I have said from the very beginning that we had to have a trade agreement that would create good American jobs, raise wages and advance our national security. And I still believe that's the high bar we have to meet.

　　I have been trying to learn as much as I can about the agreement, but I'm worried. I'm worried about currency manipulation not being part of the agreement. We've lost American jobs to the manipulation that the countries, particularly in Asia, have engaged in. I'm worried that the pharmaceutical³ companies may have gotten more benefits and patients and consumers — fewer.

　　I think that there are still a lot of unanswered questions. Sometimes they look great on paper. I know when President Obama came into office, he inherited a trade agreement with South Korea. I, along with other members of the Cabinet, pushed hard to get a better agreement. We think we made improvements.

　　Now looking back on it, it doesn't have the results we thought it would have in terms of access to the market, more exports, et cetera.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you saying that as of today, this is not something you could support?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: What I know about it, as of today, I am not in favor of what I have learned about it.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So is President Obama wrong? I mean, he's vigorously defending this. He is saying that it does protect jobs. He says that when it comes to worrying about jobs that automation and technology are more responsible than trade agreements.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Look, I think the president has been extraordinarily⁴ effective in making as strong a case as could be made. But I do worry that we've got an equation here. How do we raise incomes in America?

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But just quickly, if this agreement is rejected, Asia experts are saying this is going to influence — it's going to decrease the influence of the U.S. in Asia, it is going to give a boost to China, which is trying to become more dominant⁵, and doesn't it conflict with your pivot⁶ to Asia when you were secretary of state?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: I don't think so, because the best way that we can exercise influence in Asia is to remain the world's strongest economy here at home and that means we have to have more middle-class jobs, more people being in the middle class, more people being able to get into the middle class, and we haven't looked at this from a competitive perspective because the Republicans have stood in the way.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: You mentioned the middle class. You've said you favor middle-class tax cuts. My question is, would yours be bigger or smaller than what the Republicans have put out there? Donald Trump⁷ is out there with a plan. Jeb Bush is out there with a plan. What would yours look like?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I want to have families be able to invest in what they tell me they care about: how do they pay for child care? How do they pay for college? How do they pay the daily expenses of health care and the other things that are really straining the family budget.

　　I've looked at the plans produced on the other side by Donald Trump, by Jeb Bush and others, they would explode the deficit⁸, and once again, they are so tilted⁹ toward the rich, it's embarrassing. And we know that doesn't work. So when I roll out my tax plan, it is very much focused and targeted on the middle class.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Your private e-mail server. The Washington Post fact checker, Glen Kessler, wrote this weekend that when you speak publicly about how you handle the disclosure requests, you don't include the fact that the first request came just to you from the State Department, based on the Congressional inquiry¹⁰.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, my understanding of what happened is that the State Department had e-mails that they gave to the committee that was formed, we now know, to politically, in a partisan¹¹ way, go after me, not investigate what happened in Benghazi, and that we'd already provided those e-mails because they were already on the state.gov system.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But the first request came to you alone in response to the committee, and I guess Glenn Kessler's point is that this was the indication that the State Department did not realize before that that you were conducting government business on your — solely¹² on your private server.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: I e-mailed with hundreds of people in the State Department, across the government, some even in the Congress, and so that is just not credible¹³.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Why wouldn't it have been better at the very beginning of all this to simply say I did this, I wanted a private server because I've been through this kind of thing before. I didn't want Republican Congressmen rifling through my personal e-mails.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: That's…

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Wouldn't that have done away with the controversy¹⁴, done away with people now saying they don't trust you?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, all I can tell you, Judy, is that that's not what happened. I did not give any thought to it. I had used my own e-mail, I got into the State Department. It was allowed. I did it for convenience. My husband already had a system, I just added onto the system. Now that is what happened.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: You've commented on what Kevin McCarthy said about the political nature of this committee, but what do you expect from Chairman Trey Gowdy when those hearings get under way on October 22nd?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: I don't know what to expect.

　　I do know that it's pretty much pulled the curtain back, that this was set up to be a political partisan attack on me. Of course, you know, that probably is something we could have concluded earlier since there had already been seven investigations¹⁵.

　　Now, we see the Congress setting up a special committee to look into Planned Parenthood.

　　You know, it's really sad to me that whether it's women's health or in this case the death of four Americans serving our country, that the Republicans in Congress try to partisanize and exploit these events.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Something else on foreign policy — Syria. You came out and have said you would favor the idea of a no-fly — setting up a no-fly zone to protect refugees and others. But in talking to experts, they say in order to do that, you'd have to take out Syria's air defenses, most of which, or at least much of which are in urban areas.

　　In other words, you would have to go into an area with huge civilian¹⁷ casualties in order to set up this no-fly zone. Is that something you're prepared to take on?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, there are different parts of the country with different levels remaining of air defense¹⁶. What I want to do is to see if we can't get a coalition¹⁸ of all the countries that have a stake in this, including the Russians, to agree on three things. One, we have to do as much as possible to end the conflict. We have to stop the refugee flow by helping¹⁹ people have a safe place to stay in, and to get supplies — medical and food and other things.

　　And we have to begin the process of a political transition.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Would you be prepared to shoot down Russian planes if they flew into this no-fly area?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: No. The point is to have the leverage²⁰ of this discussion. The Russians have already invaded Turkish airspace. Turkey is a NATO ally. They are now on notice if they invade the airspace of a NATO ally, there will be action taken. This is in the absence of a no-fly zone.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you mean “action taken”?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, they've been put on notice, as I understand it, from NATO. Turkey sent up fighters. That's a pretty strong sense of notice that, “Russia, get out of our airspace.” So, we need to send a clear message to Russia. They are going after those who oppose Assad under the guise²¹ of going after ISIS, which is the common enemy of everyone.

　　And we need to begin to push back on them so that they don't engage in behavior that invades Turkish airspace; I think it's absolutely imperative²² that Secretary Kerry begin immediate²³ talks with everybody at the table to try to, as they say, de-conflict the airspace and put the Russians on notice.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: You've dealt with President Putin. You favored the so-called “re-set” with Russia in 2009. My question is: Did you and others in the administration misread Putin and underestimate what he was capable of doing?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, remember when President Obama came into office, Putin was not president, Medvedev was president, and Medvedev turned out to be a good partner.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But Putin was always in the background.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, he was, but he was letting Medvedev make the decisions backed up by him. Now, when Putin decided²⁴, in the fall of 2011 that he wanted to go back and be president and basically announced it, we knew that we were going to have a lot tougher time, because he was taking back the presidency²⁵ to assert himself, and therefore assert Russia.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So doesn't that add up to misreading what was going on?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: No, I don't think so at all.

　　When we dealt, in 2009, 2010 and the first part of 2011, with the Russian government sitting across from Medvedev in many meetings, we got results. Putin comes back, of course you have to readjust because he's coming back with an agenda. You know, it's an ongoing²⁶ challenge because of the way he behaves and how he basically wants to, you know, push the boundaries in Europe and now in the Middle East.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Let me bring you back home to the subject of guns and gun control in the aftermath of this terrible shooting at the community college in Oregon. This week, you came out for tightening²⁷ controls on guns and you talked about what you would do differently. Is this really laying out the defining difference between you and Senator Sanders when it comes to gun control?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, look, I think this is something I care passionately²⁸ about. I have been — I've spoken out and tried to work on this for more than 20 years. I have a record. I'm going to defend my record. I will let others speak to their record.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Are you saying that's a contrast with Senator Sanders?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: I'm saying this is my position and others will state their positions.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: You've said that the super-PAC that's out there supporting you, at least one of them, that they are there really to criticize Republicans. But one of the PACs that's supporting you is now attacking Senator Sanders.

　　I guess my question is do you approve of this? Going after Senator Sanders by the super-PAC? We know there's coordination²⁹.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I don't know anything about what you're saying. I have no knowledge of what they are doing. I've said I want anybody supporting me to go after Republicans because whatever differences we might have on the Democratic side, they pale in comparison to the really substantive³⁰ differences we have with the Republicans.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Would you call on them to cease and desist and stop criticizing Senator Sanders?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: I just said I want them to — I want people who support me to go after Republicans. That's what I — I've said it before, I'm saying it again on this show.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well — and just continuing in that vein³¹, the David Brock Group, it's been reported this week in New York Magazine, is digging through Vice³² President Biden's past, his record, in so-called opposition³³ research. My question is do you approve of this?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: You know, I — first of all, I have no knowledge of it. I have been very clear, anybody who listens to my public statements, anybody who pays attention to what I say, I want to give Vice President Biden whatever space and time he needs to make his decision.

　　Now, if he gets into the election, then people are going to be raising questions, just like they do about me. That's what happens when you get into the arena³⁴. But I'm not asking and I don't approve of anybody who is supporting me, or say they support me, to be focusing on anyone other than the Republicans.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But for you to — you're saying that you weren't aware that they were doing this and you don't approve of it, but the fact that they're doing it, isn't that really an effort to intimidate³⁵ the Vice President against getting into the race?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Judy, I have no — I don't know anything about it. I can't comment on it any further than I have.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you believe that — Vice President Biden is — has made it very clear he's looking at getting in. How does it change the race if he gets in?

　　HILLARY CLINTON: Well if he gets in, I will continue to speak positively³⁶ about him because I feel that way. We've been friends a long time. But I will put forth³⁷ my platform, what I want to do to build on what President Obama has done. And then the Democratic voters will make their decision.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Secretary Hillary Clinton, we thank you very much for talking with us.

　　HILLARY CLINTON: My pleasure. Thank you.

1 caucuses   

n.（政党决定政策或推举竞选人的）核心成员( caucus的名词复数 )；决策干部；决策委员会；秘密会议

参考例句：

• Republican caucuses will happen in about 410 towns across Maine. 共和党团会议选举将在缅因州的约410个城镇进行。 来自互联网

2 partnership   

n.合作关系，伙伴关系

参考例句：

• The company has gone into partnership with Swiss Bank Corporation.这家公司已经和瑞士银行公司建立合作关系。
• Martin has taken him into general partnership in his company.马丁已让他成为公司的普通合伙人。

3 pharmaceutical   

adj.药学的，药物的；药用的，药剂师的

参考例句：

• She has donated money to establish a pharmaceutical laboratory.她捐款成立了一个药剂实验室。
• We are engaged in a legal tussle with a large pharmaceutical company.我们正同一家大制药公司闹法律纠纷。

4 extraordinarily   

adv.格外地；极端地

参考例句：

• She is an extraordinarily beautiful girl.她是个美丽非凡的姑娘。
• The sea was extraordinarily calm that morning.那天清晨，大海出奇地宁静。

5 dominant   

adj.支配的，统治的；占优势的；显性的；n.主因，要素，主要的人(或物)；显性基因

参考例句：

• The British were formerly dominant in India.英国人从前统治印度。
• She was a dominant figure in the French film industry.她在法国电影界是个举足轻重的人物。

6 pivot   

v.在枢轴上转动；装枢轴，枢轴；adj.枢轴的

参考例句：

• She is the central pivot of creation and represents the feminine aspect in all things.她是创造的中心枢轴，表现出万物的女性面貌。
• If a spring is present,the hand wheel will pivot on the spring.如果有弹簧，手轮的枢轴会装在弹簧上。

7 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

8 deficit   

n.亏空，亏损；赤字，逆差

参考例句：

• The directors have reported a deficit of 2.5 million dollars.董事们报告赤字为250万美元。
• We have a great deficit this year.我们今年有很大亏损。

9 tilted   

v. 倾斜的

参考例句：

• Suddenly the boat tilted to one side. 小船突然倾向一侧。
• She tilted her chin at him defiantly. 她向他翘起下巴表示挑衅。

10 inquiry   

n.打听，询问，调查，查问

参考例句：

• Many parents have been pressing for an inquiry into the problem.许多家长迫切要求调查这个问题。
• The field of inquiry has narrowed down to five persons.调查的范围已经缩小到只剩5个人了。

11 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。

12 solely   

adv.仅仅，唯一地

参考例句：

• Success should not be measured solely by educational achievement.成功与否不应只用学业成绩来衡量。
• The town depends almost solely on the tourist trade.这座城市几乎完全靠旅游业维持。

13 credible   

adj.可信任的，可靠的

参考例句：

• The news report is hardly credible.这则新闻报道令人难以置信。
• Is there a credible alternative to the nuclear deterrent?是否有可以取代核威慑力量的可靠办法？

14 controversy   

n.争论，辩论，争吵

参考例句：

• That is a fact beyond controversy.那是一个无可争论的事实。
• We ran the risk of becoming the butt of every controversy.我们要冒使自己在所有的纷争中都成为众矢之的的风险。

15 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

16 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

17 civilian   

adj.平民的，民用的，民众的

参考例句：

• There is no reliable information about civilian casualties.关于平民的伤亡还没有确凿的信息。
• He resigned his commission to take up a civilian job.他辞去军职而从事平民工作。

18 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

19 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

20 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。

21 guise   

n.外表，伪装的姿态

参考例句：

• They got into the school in the guise of inspectors.他们假装成视察员进了学校。
• The thief came into the house under the guise of a repairman.那小偷扮成个修理匠进了屋子。

22 imperative   

n.命令，需要；规则；祈使语气；adj.强制的；紧急的

参考例句：

• He always speaks in an imperative tone of voice.他老是用命令的口吻讲话。
• The events of the past few days make it imperative for her to act.过去这几天发生的事迫使她不得不立即行动。

23 immediate   

adj.立即的；直接的，最接近的；紧靠的

参考例句：

• His immediate neighbours felt it their duty to call.他的近邻认为他们有责任去拜访。
• We declared ourselves for the immediate convocation of the meeting.我们主张立即召开这个会议。

24 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

25 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

26 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

27 tightening   

上紧，固定，紧密

参考例句：

• Make sure the washer is firmly seated before tightening the pipe. 旋紧水管之前，检查一下洗衣机是否已牢牢地固定在底座上了。
• It needs tightening up a little. 它还需要再收紧些。

28 passionately   

ad.热烈地，激烈地

参考例句：

• She could hate as passionately as she could love. 她能恨得咬牙切齿，也能爱得一往情深。
• He was passionately addicted to pop music. 他酷爱流行音乐。

29 coordination   

n.协调，协作

参考例句：

• Gymnastics is a sport that requires a considerable level of coordination.体操是一项需要高协调性的运动。
• The perfect coordination of the dancers and singers added a rhythmic charm to the performance.舞蹈演员和歌手们配合得很好，使演出更具魅力。

30 substantive   

adj.表示实在的；本质的、实质性的；独立的；n.实词，实名词；独立存在的实体

参考例句：

• They plan to meet again in Rome very soon to begin substantive negotiations.他们计划不久在罗马再次会晤以开始实质性的谈判。
• A president needs substantive advice,but he also requires emotional succor. 一个总统需要实质性的建议，但也需要感情上的支持。

31 vein   

n.血管，静脉；叶脉，纹理；情绪；vt.使成脉络

参考例句：

• The girl is not in the vein for singing today.那女孩今天没有心情唱歌。
• The doctor injects glucose into the patient's vein.医生把葡萄糖注射入病人的静脉。

32 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

33 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

34 arena   

n.竞技场，运动场所；竞争场所，舞台

参考例句：

• She entered the political arena at the age of 25. 她25岁进入政界。
• He had not an adequate arena for the exercise of his talents.他没有充分发挥其才能的场所。

35 intimidate   

vt.恐吓，威胁

参考例句：

• You think you can intimidate people into doing what you want?你以为你可以威胁别人做任何事？
• The first strike capacity is intended mainly to intimidate adversary.第一次攻击的武力主要是用来吓阻敌方的。

36 positively   

adv.明确地，断然，坚决地；实在，确实

参考例句：

• She was positively glowing with happiness.她满脸幸福。
• The weather was positively poisonous.这天气着实讨厌。

37 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。