pbs高端访谈:哈米德的新小说《如何在崛起的亚洲赚取不义之财》

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　　RAY SUAREZ:Next: a story about love, life and the quest for success in a modern metropolis¹.

　　Jeffrey Brown has our book conversation.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:A poor boy from a rural village comes to a sprawling², wild, sometimes violent city and struggles, succeeds, makes and loses a fortune. That's the outline of a new novel set in an unnamed country, very much like Pakistan, but one told in the form of a self-help book.

　　It's titled "How to Get Filthy³ Rich in Rising Asia." Author Mohsin Hamid grew up in and lives now in Lahore, Pakistan. In between, he also lived and studied in the United States.

　　And welcome to you.

　　MOHSIN HAMID, Author, "How to Get Filthy Rich in Rising Asia": Thank you.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:First, we should address this great title and the idea of writing -- writing the book as a self--help book. Why that approach?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Well, it started as a joke.

　　I was with a friend. And we started talking about novels feeling like hard work sometimes as a reader, and that maybe it was like self-help for us to read it.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:For you?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Yes, for us as readers and also as writers to write them.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:Yes.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:And the more I thought about that, the more it seemed there was some truth in that, that actually maybe I do write novels as self-help. And maybe I even read them partly for self-help.

　　So what started as a joke became kind of an earnest approach to thinking about the novel.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:And I assume that it also was tapping into what many people read, right, I mean, how -- especially I think in the countries you're talking about, sort of how to succeed. Everybody is trying to figure that out.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Yes. Well, we're surrounded by self-help books.

　　If you walk into a bookshop in Pakistan, or really anywhere in Asia, you will see shelf after shelf full of, you know, how to become successful, how to build a spreadsheet, how to give a good job interview. And newspapers and magazines are full of it, too. So, I think there is a barrage⁴ of self-help hitting us all the time.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:Now, the protagonist⁵ here is unnamed.

　　In that light, he becomes a kind of everyman, sort of striving, right? And it looks as though you really wanted to use this individual life to tackle some very, very big questions of a changing society, migration⁶, for example, from rural to the city. Is that fair, that you were trying to look at all that?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Yes, I think so.

　　I mean, I wanted to look at a big canvas, and in particular the movement of billions of people from the world's villages to the cities.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:Billions?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Yes. It is billions, because something like half the world's people now live in cities. And it will be more like 90 percent in another 20, 30 years.

　　And that means billions of people are going to move. My city, Lahore, has 10 million people. When I was born, 41 years ago, it had one million people. So it is now New York size.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:Really?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:And it used to be a small, much smaller town.

　　So I wanted to talk about that huge shift in the human population all over the world, and not just in Pakistan, but equally in Mexico City and Lagos and Bangkok.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:And the shift, of course, is a kind of rise in affluence⁷, which is what you are talking about, getting filthy rich or at least rising out of the rural poverty, but still all kinds of problems at the same time and rigidities within the society.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Well, there's all kinds of problems in terms of what you have to do to rise up.

　　It isn't easy, obviously, and many people don't make it, even though the middle class is swelling⁸ by millions and millions of people. But the other thing which is cutting against it is this sort of market narrative⁹ of growth, more money, more cars, a bigger home, is only half of the human story, because the other part of the human story is loss.

　　We get older. We get more fragile. We lose everybody we loved, and eventually we lose our lives. And that side of the story, how to deal with loss is something that this big economic boom isn't equipping us for, and I think creates a lot of tension.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:The self-help book is not written for that one, right? It is for the way up.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Well, interestingly enough, I think this self-help book is actually intended for that one.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:Yes, I see that.

　　Well, it's interesting, because your—every title is a kind of piece of advice. And it starts with move to the city. Get an education. Don't fall in love, which your protagonist doesn't listen to that one.

　　But then it becomes this sort of darker, avoid idealists, which brings in the notion of religious zealotry. Befriend a bureaucrat¹⁰, the corruption¹² in a society, and then finally be prepared to use violence. So there is a darker side here.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:There is.

　　I think—you know, I think the market is a brutal¹³ thing. It's, you know, the law of the jungle with some rules. And in a place like Pakistan or much of the world really, where those rules are pretty flimsy and loosely enforced, it's a—it's an often violent and corrupt¹¹ experience trying to make it up.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:I read one of your previous novels, "The Reluctant Fundamentalist," and now this.

　　And I—your book and other books helped me understand what's going on in these countries that we often more on our program are looking at through terrorism and all kinds of bad things. But I wonder, for you as a writer, do you feel a sense of mission, if that's the word, to try to tell the rest of the world what's going on in your society?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Well, it's less that I'm trying to tell the rest of the world and it's more I'm trying to figure it out myself.

　　So I'm equally confused by what is going on.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:You are?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:And so this novel, in trying to chart all the different phases that people move, from absolute poverty up to wealth, and what it takes, and what that might feel like, was an attempt, I think, as a writer, to make sense of this world I'm seeing around me.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:And without giving away the ending here, but after all the trials and losses that you were referring to, there is a kind of hope and happiness, even if it's not of the filthy rich kind.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Yes.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:Did you—well, go ahead. Is that what you were striving for too?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Yes, because the idea is that it is possible to find a certain degree of release or contentment in life, and that, you know, despite sort of the cynical¹⁴ nation of a lot of our art and literature and culture, that effort should remain part of, at least for me, my project as a writer, to try to find that for myself and to try to find that just generally.

　　It's easy to end a novel sort of in sorrow and have it be a good literary work. Having it end with a degree of happiness and not be a cliche¹⁵ actually is a lot harder. So only in my third novel did I finally have the guts¹⁶ to try doing that.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:And that is true, you are saying, even in a place that is rife¹⁷ with all kinds of problems that, as I said, we report on all the time?

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Absolutely, because I think that, actually, if you—the attempt to find some human connection, to find some empathy, to find some way of going beyond yourself is actually connected to all those problems as well, because those problems that you referred to, terrorism, violence, et cetera, come in part from a rampant¹⁸ state of depression and mental illness that has set in as people have lost traditional ways of looking at the world and don't have anything to replace them with.

　　JEFFREY BROWN:"How to Get Filthy Rich in Rising Asia."

　　Mohsin Hamid, nice to talk to you. Thanks.

　　MOHSIN HAMID:Thank you.

　　RAY SUAREZ:You can find Jeff's extra questions and Hamid's answers on Art Beat. Also there, Hamid reads an excerpt¹⁹ from his book.

1 metropolis   

n.首府；大城市

参考例句：

• Shanghai is a metropolis in China.上海是中国的大都市。
• He was dazzled by the gaiety and splendour of the metropolis.大都市的花花世界使他感到眼花缭乱。

2 sprawling   

adj.蔓生的，不规则地伸展的v.伸开四肢坐[躺]( sprawl的现在分词 )；蔓延；杂乱无序地拓展；四肢伸展坐着（或躺着）

参考例句：

• He was sprawling in an armchair in front of the TV. 他伸开手脚坐在电视机前的一张扶手椅上。
• a modern sprawling town 一座杂乱无序拓展的现代城镇

3 filthy   

adj.卑劣的；恶劣的，肮脏的

参考例句：

• The whole river has been fouled up with filthy waste from factories.整条河都被工厂的污秽废物污染了。
• You really should throw out that filthy old sofa and get a new one.你真的应该扔掉那张肮脏的旧沙发，然后再去买张新的。

4 barrage   

n.火力网，弹幕

参考例句：

• The attack jumped off under cover of a barrage.进攻在炮火的掩护下开始了。
• The fierce artillery barrage destroyed the most part of the city in a few minutes.猛烈的炮火几分钟内便毁灭了这座城市的大部分地区。

5 protagonist   

n.(思想观念的)倡导者；主角，主人公

参考例句：

• The protagonist reforms in the end and avoids his proper punishment.戏剧主角最后改过自新并避免了他应受的惩罚。
• He is the model for the protagonist in the play.剧本中的主人公就是以他为模特儿创作的！

6 migration   

n.迁移，移居，（鸟类等的）迁徙

参考例句：

• Swallows begin their migration south in autumn.燕子在秋季开始向南方迁移。
• He described the vernal migration of birds in detail.他详细地描述了鸟的春季移居。

7 affluence   

n.充裕，富足

参考例句：

• Their affluence is more apparent than real.他们的富有是虚有其表。
• There is a lot of affluence in this part of the state because it has many businesses.这个州的这一部分相当富有，因为它有很多商行。

8 swelling   

n.肿胀

参考例句：

• Use ice to reduce the swelling. 用冰敷消肿。
• There is a marked swelling of the lymph nodes. 淋巴结处有明显的肿块。

9 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

10 bureaucrat   

n. 官僚作风的人，官僚，官僚政治论者

参考例句：

• He was just another faceless bureaucrat.他只不过是一个典型呆板的官员。
• The economy is still controlled by bureaucrats.经济依然被官僚们所掌控。

11 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

12 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

13 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。

14 cynical   

adj.(对人性或动机)怀疑的，不信世道向善的

参考例句：

• The enormous difficulty makes him cynical about the feasibility of the idea.由于困难很大，他对这个主意是否可行持怀疑态度。
• He was cynical that any good could come of democracy.他不相信民主会带来什么好处。

15 cliche   

n./a.陈词滥调(的)；老生常谈(的)；陈腐的

参考例句：

• You should always try to avoid the use of cliche. 你应该尽量避免使用陈词滥调。
• The old cliche is certainly true:the bigger car do mean bigger profits.有句老话倒的确说得不假:车大利大。

16 guts   

v.狼吞虎咽，贪婪地吃，飞碟游戏（比赛双方每组5人，相距15码，互相掷接飞碟）；毁坏（建筑物等）的内部( gut的第三人称单数 )；取出…的内脏n.勇气( gut的名词复数 )；内脏；消化道的下段；肠

参考例句：

• I'll only cook fish if the guts have been removed. 鱼若已收拾干净，我只需烧一下即可。
• Barbara hasn't got the guts to leave her mother. 巴巴拉没有勇气离开她妈妈。 来自《简明英汉词典》

17 rife   

adj.(指坏事情)充斥的，流行的，普遍的

参考例句：

• Disease is rife in the area.疾病在这一区很流行。
• Corruption was rife before the election.选举之前腐败盛行。

18 rampant   

adj.(植物)蔓生的；狂暴的，无约束的

参考例句：

• Sickness was rampant in the area.该地区疾病蔓延。
• You cannot allow children to rampant through the museum.你不能任由小孩子在博物馆里乱跑。

19 excerpt   

n.摘录，选录，节录

参考例句：

• This is an excerpt from a novel.这是一部小说的摘录。
• Can you excerpt something from the newspaper? 你能从报纸上选录些东西吗？