PBS高端访谈:特朗普欲打破先例举行阅兵（在线收听）

John Yang: Top White House and Pentagon officials confirm that the president wants a military parade in Washington, and that plans are being drawn up. As White House correspondent Yamiche Alcindor reports, those marching orders from Mr. Trump have some raising their eyebrows, while others are rising to salute.

Yamiche Alcindor: It was a show of military might that left a lasting impression. President Trump was the guest of honor at France's Bastille Day parade last July. It was still on his mind two months later, when he saw French President Emanuel Macron at the U.N. General Assembly.

President Donald Trump: It was one of the greatest parades I have ever seen. We may do something like that on July 4 in Washington down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Yamiche Alcindor: In January, Mr. Trump gave marching orders to do just that. It happened at a meeting with Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis and General Joseph Dunford, chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Last night, The Washington Post's Greg Jaffe reported on what the president said about a parade.

Greg Jaffe: He made no secret of the fact that he wanted one. When you say that in front of a room of generals, I think they tend to take it as an order, and I think that's what happened there.

Yamiche Alcindor: Now the Pentagon confirms it has begun working on the details. The last large-scale military parade in Washington was in 1991. President George H.W. Bush ordered that one to celebrate the end of the Gulf War. It featured almost 9,000 troops and attracted 200,000 bystanders. The price tag, $8 million, or more than $14 million in today's dollars. Today, Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland said it would be the wrong way to use taxpayer money.

Sen. Ben Cardin: First of all, there's a cost issue involved here. Secondly, America doesn't have to display its military might. The world understands our strength.

Yamiche Alcindor: At the White House, Secretary Mattis was asked about the cost. He has been saying the military is short on funds.

James Mattis: We're all aware, in this country, of the president's affection and respect for the military. We have been putting together some options. We will send them up to the White House.

Yamiche Alcindor: Greg Jaffe says a parade also presents a logistical challenge for the Pentagon.

Greg Jaffe: It involves taking equipment offline, so they're not training with it. It's costly. So I think there's not a lot of enthusiasm for this idea, especially among the rank and file in the Pentagon.

Yamiche Alcindor: But Republican Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama welcomes the chance to celebrate the military.

Sen. Richard Shelby: It's probably good for the country always if we praise our soldiers, whether it's Washington, D.C., or Birmingham, Alabama, or New York City. We have had that in the past.

Yamiche Alcindor: Throughout the Cold War, the United States refrained from public displays of military force. It avoided comparisons with Soviet soldiers and tanks routinely parading through Moscow. In 2018, a U.S. military parade could draw comparisons with North Korea. Kim Jong-un makes a show of parading his weapons, as his military did last April. But Greg Jaffe suggests that, for President Trump, breaking with precedent could be part of the appeal.

Greg Jaffe: Other presidents don't hold parades, and I think Trump views himself as a different kind of president. He wants to show to the country, hey, I'm rebuilding the military, I care about the military, that sort of thing. So, I think that is where his focus is, and maybe preparing for the midterm elections or for 2020.

Yamiche Alcindor: Indications are the Pentagon could aim to stage the parade around Veterans Day in November. For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Yamiche Alcindor.

约翰·杨：白宫和五角大楼高级官员确认总统想在华盛顿举行阅兵式，计划正在拟定。白宫记者亚米彻·阿尔辛多报道，针对特朗普先生发出的阅兵命令，有些人反对，有些人拥护。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：这次军力展示给人留下了深刻印象。特朗普总统作为贵宾出席了去年七月在法国举行的巴士底日阅兵式。直到两个月后，他在联合国大会上见到法国总统埃马纽埃尔·马克龙时，这一幕仍然在他脑海中回荡。

唐纳德·特朗普总统：这是我见过最伟大的阅兵之一。我们可能会于7月4日在宾夕法尼亚的华盛顿大街上进行类似的阅兵。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：一月，特朗普先生发出命令，要求举行阅兵。此命令在他与防长吉姆·马蒂斯和参谋长联席会议主席约瑟夫·邓福德上将的一次会议上发出。昨晚，华盛顿邮报的格里格·贾菲报道了总统就阅兵所说的内容。

格里格·贾菲：他想要一次阅兵，对此他毫不掩饰。当你站在一屋子将军前说这些话时，我想他们会把它当作一个命令，我想那就是那里发生的事情。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：现在五角大楼证实，它已经开始着手处理细节问题。华盛顿最后一次大规模阅兵发生在1991年。乔治·赫伯特·沃克·布什总统下令举行阅兵，庆祝海湾战争结束。那次阅兵人数接近9,000名士兵，吸引200,000人伫立旁观。当时花费高达800万美元，折合今天，超过1400万美元。今天，马里兰州民主党参议员本·卡丁说，这样会乱花纳税人的钱。

参议员本·卡丁：首先，这里涉及到花销问题。第二，美国不必展示其军事实力。世界了解我们的力量。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：在白宫，防长马蒂斯被问及花费问题。他一直在说军队资金短缺。

吉姆·马蒂斯：在这个国家，我们都知道总统对军队的热爱和尊敬。我们已经在整合一些选项。我们将把它们呈递白宫。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：格里格·贾菲说，阅兵还对五角大楼提出了一个后勤挑战。

格里格·贾菲：它涉及到线下携带装备，而他们没有携带装备进行演练。（因为）这么做成本很高。所以我认为，尤其是五角大楼的普通阶层，对这个想法并没有太大热情。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：但是阿拉巴马州的共和党参议员理查·谢尔比对此次军队庆祝机会表示拥护。

参议员理查·谢尔比：如果我们赞扬我们的士兵，不管是在华盛顿哥伦比亚特区，还是在伯明翰、亚拉巴马州或纽约，都可能对这个国家有好处。我们过去有过先例。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：整个冷战期间，美国都在避免公开展示军事力量。避免了与在莫斯科进行日常阅兵的苏联士兵和坦克的比较。2018年，美国阅兵式可以与朝鲜进行比较。金正恩举行阅兵，展示他的武器装备，去年四月他的军队就曾有过此举。但格里格·贾菲认为，对于特朗普总统来说，打破先例可能正是此举的部分魅力所在。

格里格·贾菲：其他总统不举行阅兵，我认为特朗普认为自己是一个与众不同的总统。他想向国家展示，嘿，我在重建军队，我关心军队，诸如此类的事情。所以，我认为这就是他的重点所在，也许是为中期选举或2020年选举做的准备。

亚米彻·阿尔辛多：迹象表明五角大楼可能会在十一月的“老兵节”上举行阅兵。PBS NewsHour，我是亚米彻·阿尔辛多。