美国国家公共电台 NPR 特朗普威胁动用军队镇暴 遭多名前军官指责（在线收听）

When General Jim Mattis resigned from the Trump administration, he argued it would beinappropriate to criticize a sitting president. Well, that has now changed. The formersecretary of defense writes that the president is a threat to the Constitution and says we are, quote, "witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership." Mattiscriticized the president's threat to use the military against protesters and said the presidenthas spent years trying to divide us. His words were published in The Atlantic.

吉姆·马蒂斯将军从特朗普政府辞职时，他认为批评现任总统是不合适的行为。但现在他的想法发生了改变。这名前国防部长写道：总统对宪法构成威胁，他说，我们“目睹了三年没有成熟领导层的后果”。马蒂斯对总统威胁动用军队镇压抗议者进行了指责，他说，总统多年来一直在试图分裂我们。他的言论发表在《大西洋月刊》上。

And several other former military leaders publicly rejected the president's actions as well. Evencurrent Secretary of Defense Mark Esper seemed to d???????isagree with the president during apress conference.

其他多名前军事领袖也公开拒绝了总统的行动。就连现任国防部长马克·埃斯珀似乎也在记者会上表示不同意总统的决定。

(SOUNDBITE OF PRESS CONFERENCE)

（记者会音频）

MARK ESPER: The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only beused as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not inone of those situations now.

马克·埃斯珀：只有在最紧急和最危急的情况下，现役部队才能作为最后手段执行执法任务。但我们现在并未面临这种情况。

GREENE: I want to bring in NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman now. Hi there, Tom.

格林：我想请NPR驻五角大楼记者汤姆·鲍曼介绍详细情况。你好，汤姆。

TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey, David.

汤姆·鲍曼连线：你好，大卫。

GREENE: So former military leaders lining up to criticize the commander in chief. This ispretty unusual, right?

格林：前军事领袖相继指责总司令（指特朗普）。这是相当不同寻常的情况，对吧？

BOWMAN: You know, it's very unusual for this many to weigh in in such harsh language. Andthese kind of attacks almost are unheard of. Once in a while, you get maybe a former retiredofficer or official criticizing policy. This is basically about character and fitness for office andcomparisons many of them had to authoritarian regimes around the world. Former DefenseSecretary Jim Mattis, as we've heard, said Trump is the first president in his life who's trying todivide, not unite, the nation. And retired Navy Admiral Jim Stavridis wrote in stark terms, hesaid, we cannot afford to have a future Lafayette Square end up looking like Tiananmen Square.

鲍曼：多位军事领袖用如此严厉的语言发表意见是极为不同寻常的事情。这种攻击几乎闻所未见。偶尔，可能会有一名前退休官员或官员对政策进行批评。这基本上与特性和适任性有关，他们中的许多人会对世界各地的威权政体进行比较。正如我们所听到的，前国防部长吉姆·马蒂斯表示，他有生以来，特朗普是首位试图分裂国家而不是团结国家的总统。

And, David, there was also criticism from retired officers of Defense Secretary Mark Esper forusing the term battlespace in a contentious call with the nation's governors, and also forletting himself be part of what was largely a White House photo-op that involved theaggressive dispersal of peaceful protesters at Lafayette Square. Esper, in his defense, saidhe regrets using the term battlespace and also said he was unaware he would be involved in aphoto-op and thought they were just going out to thank the National Guard troops.

大卫，国防部长马克·埃斯珀的退休军官也批评埃斯珀在与美国各州州长进行的有争议通话中使用“战场”一词，同时指责其参与白宫的拍照活动，而该活动极具攻击性地驱散了拉斐特广场的和平抗议者。埃斯珀为自已辩护称，他对使用“战场”一词感到后悔，而且他不知道自已会参与拍照活动，他以为他们只是要公开感谢国民警卫队。

GREENE: Well, I mean, I mentioned former military folks criticize the president. This is thecurrent defense secretary dealing with criticism of himself, but also seeming to disagreewith the president, right? What else did he have to say?

格林：我刚提到前军事领袖对总统进行了指责。现任国防部长在处理自已面临的批评，他似乎也不同意总统的表态，对吧？他还说了什么？

BOWMAN: Right. He said it was not a good idea to use active-duty forces in a clear split withthe White House. Also didn't want to invoke the Insurrection Act, which would allow apresident to send in active-duty troops, you know, to D.C. or to the states. And, you know, clearly, he is just very uncomfortable with this whole situation.

鲍曼：对。他说动用现役部队不是个好主意，这与白宫的言论存在明显分歧。他也不想触发《暴乱法》，该法允许总统向华盛顿特区或其他州派遣现役部队。很明显，他对整个情况感到非常不安。

GREENE: Tom, you have covered the Pentagon for many years. How are you seeing all thisunfold, broadly?

格林：汤姆，多年来你一直在报道五角大楼相关新闻。大体上来说，你如何看待这一切？

BOWMAN: Well, again, it's really unusual for all these folks to come out and criticize a sittingpresident, as Mattis said, and for so many to come out at a time like this. But Admiral MikeMullen — retired Admiral Mike Mullen is former chair of the Joint Chiefs — said this is aninflection point. Well, the question is, well, is it? At no point is — are we seeing any militaryofficers offering to resign or any senior official offering to resign. I think that's something youkeep an eye on, if anyone actually says — you know what? — I can't work for this White Houseanymore. So that's something I would keep an eye on.

鲍曼：我们要再说一次，如马蒂斯所说，极为不同寻常的是，这些军官公开批评现任总统，而且有如此多的人在这种时候公开表态。但前参谋长联席会议主席、退役海军上将迈克·马伦表示，这是一个转折点。问题是，真的吗？我们从未看到任何军官或高级官员提出辞职。我认为这是需要关注的事情，看看是否有人说，你知道吗？我无法再为这届白宫工作了。这是我会关注的事情。

GREENE: NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. Tom, thanks so much.

格林：以上是NPR新闻驻五角大楼记者汤姆·鲍曼带来的报道。汤姆，非常谢谢你。

BOWMAN: You're welcome, David.

鲍曼：不客气，大卫。