美国国家公共电台 NPR 拜登在白宫会晤乌克兰总统泽伦斯基（在线收听）

Today at the White House, there was a meeting in the Oval Office that has been two years in the making. It started with a phone call, July 2019.

今天，一场筹备了两年的会谈在白宫椭圆形办公室举行。这一切始于2019年7月的一通电话。从2019年7月的一个电话开始。

My call was perfect. The president yesterday of Ukraine said there was no pressure put on him whatsoever, none whatsoever.

我的通话很完美。乌克兰总统昨天表示，他没有受到任何压力，没有任何压力。

Then newly elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was on the line with then President Donald Trump trying to secure a White House meeting.

当时，新当选的乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽伦斯基与时任美国总统唐纳德·特朗普通话，试图促成白宫会晤。

Trump used the conversation to press for dirt on a political opponent.

特朗普利用这次通话来获取政治对手的丑闻。

He did not get what he wanted. He got impeached instead.

他没有得到他想要的。他反而遭到了弹劾。

Zelenskyy didn't get what he wanted either, at least not until today, when he met with that political opponent, Joe Biden.

泽伦斯基也没有得到他想要的，至少在今天——在他与上面提到的政治对手乔·拜登会面之前没有。

NPR's Scott Detrow joins us now from the White House. Hey, Scott.

NPR新闻的斯科特·德特罗将从白宫和我们连线。你好，斯科特。

Good afternoon.

下午好。

I'm trying to decide where to start. Talk about a meeting with a whole lot of baggage.

我正试着决定从哪里开始。请谈谈这个有很多包袱的会谈。

I mean, it's hard to remember, given the pace of news in the past years, including an entirely separate impeachment.

考虑到过去几年的新闻节奏，包括完全独立的弹劾案，这很难记起来。

But Zelenskyy, just to refresh everyone, had desperately wanted to meet face to face with president Trump,

但为了使大家想起来，泽伦斯基一直拼命想与特朗普总统面对面会谈，

and according to the transcript of that key July 2019 call, Trump dangled the possibility of that meeting

根据2019年7月那次关键通话的记录，特朗普提出了会面的可能性，

and also, a bit more vaguely, U.S. military support for Ukraine on the condition that Zelenskyy help him dig up dirt on Hunter Biden,

以及更不确定的一点——美国对乌克兰的军事支持，但前提条件是泽伦斯基帮助他挖掘亨特·拜登的丑闻，

who had been a member of a board of a Ukrainian energy company.

后者曾是乌克兰一家能源公司的董事会成员。

Zelenskyy refused, of course. Trump was impeached, as you said. He was acquitted.

当然，泽伦斯基拒绝了这一要求。正如你所说，特朗普遭受了弹劾。但之后他被宣告无罪。

A lot of history. To be clear, though, the White House had zero interest in addressing that history today.

这涉及很多历史。不过，要明确的是，白宫今天对解决这一历史问题毫无兴趣。

I tried to ask Press Secretary Jen Psaki about it during today's briefing.

在今天的简报会上，我试图向新闻秘书珍·普萨基询问此事。

The events, the man's phone calls that led up to the 2019 impeachment —

这些事件，导致2019年弹劾案的泽伦斯基的电话——

I'm just wondering, did they factor in any way into the way the White House prepared for this meeting,

我只是想知道，这些事件是否以任何方式影响了白宫为这次会议做准备的方式，

specifically the fact that Hunter Biden was a key part of those conversations with the last administration and Zelenskyy?

特别是亨特·拜登是与上届政府和泽伦斯基对话的关键部分这一事实？

And did President Biden expect in any way, shape or form to address that dynamic in today's meeting?

拜登总统是否期望以任何方式或形式在今天的会谈中解决这一动态？

No.

没有。

I can hear just how much she wants to talk about it, Scott. Did any news, any development actually come out of today's meeting?

斯科特，我能听出来她有多不想谈论这件事。今天的会谈有什么消息和进展吗？

According to the White House, they finalized $60 million in what the White House frames as security assistance for Ukraine, which would include javelin missiles.

据白宫称，他们最终敲定了6000万美元的资金，白宫称之为对乌克兰的安全援助，其中包括标枪导弹。

Remember, Russia still controls Crimea and is a constant threat to Ukrainian independence.

请记住，俄罗斯仍控制着克里米亚，并且一直威胁着乌克兰的独立。

Biden reiterated U.S. support for Ukraine and its independence in that meeting today.

拜登在今天的会谈中重申了美国对乌克兰及其独立的支持。

And the United States remains firmly committed to Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russian aggression.

面对俄罗斯的侵略，美国仍然坚定地致力于维护乌克兰的主权和领土完整。

Though White House officials are sticking to the same noncommittal general language on whether they would want to see Ukraine eventually in NATO —

尽管白宫官员在是否希望乌克兰最终加入北约问题上仍坚持坚持同样含糊其辞的笼统措辞，

that's something Ukraine wants, but Russia would certainly see as a major sign of aggression.

乌克兰想加入北约，但俄罗斯肯定会将这视为侵略的主要标志。

And why was it that Ukraine, that President Zelenskyy wanted this Oval Office meeting so badly?

为什么乌克兰总统泽伦斯基如此迫切地希望在椭圆形办公室举行会谈？

Well, it was critically important in 2019, when he was a new leader

这在2019年至关重要，当时他是新上任的领导人，

and when President Trump was repeatedly expressing ambivalence about how much the U.S. would stand up for European allies against Russia.

特朗普总统有关美国会在多大程度上支持欧盟反对俄罗斯的言论屡屡自相矛盾。

And even while Ukraine is not a NATO ally, Zelenskyy wants to project a close relationship with the United States,

即使乌克兰不是北约盟友，泽伦斯基也希望与美国建立密切的关系，

even if much of the White House focus right now is largely elsewhere, with a hurricane, the Afghanistan withdrawal and COVID, among many other things.

尽管白宫目前的重点主要集中在其他地方，比如飓风、阿富汗撤军和新冠疫情等。

This is still a big moment for Zelenskyy.

现在对泽伦斯基来说仍是重要时刻。

He is just the second European leader to meet with Biden in the Oval Office, following German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

他是继德国总理安格拉·默克尔之后第二位在椭圆形办公室与拜登会晤的欧洲领导人。

And I suppose worth just noting the backdrop — constraining Russia is something the Biden administration does care about, does want to talk about.

我想值得注意的是背景情况，制约俄罗斯确实是拜登政府非常关心、也非常想谈论的问题。

In fact, that's one of the reasons Biden has given for getting out of Afghanistan.

事实上，这也是拜登给出的撤离阿富汗的原因之一。

Absolutely. He sees this existential struggle between Western and the growing clout of governments like Russia and China as the key issue in foreign policy of his administration.

没错。他将西方与俄罗斯和中国等政府日益增长的影响力之间的生存斗争视为其政府外交政策的关键事项。

That is NPR's Scott Detrow at the White House for us. Thank you, Scott.

以上是NPR新闻的斯科特·德特罗从白宫带来的报道。谢谢你，斯科特。

Thank you.

谢谢。