PBS高端访谈:伊丽莎白·霍姆斯诉讼案对硅谷有何影响?（在线收听）

Elizabeth Holmes, the founder of the former health technology company Theranos, faced cross-examination today for the first time in the fraud case against her.

伊丽莎白·霍姆斯，前健康技术公司Theranos的创始人，今天首次因诈骗案面临交互讯问。

Federal prosecutors have called 29 witnesses over 11 weeks, in an attempt to reveal the alleged deception that led investors and patients to believe the company could conduct a range of tests using just a few drops of blood.

联邦检察官在11周内传唤了29名证人，试图揭露该公司涉嫌的欺诈行为。该欺诈行为曾让投资者和患者相信，该公司仅用几滴血就可以进行一系列测试。

The start-up collapsed in 2018.

这家初创企业于2018年倒闭。

Rebecca Jarvis is the chief business, technology,and economics correspondent for ABC News and the host of "The Dropout,"a podcast about Holmes and the on going trial, which is being held in San Jose.

黎贝卡·贾维斯是美国广播公司新闻(ABC News)的首席商务，技术和经济学通讯员，也是“The Dropout”节目的主持人，这是一个播客节目，报导了霍姆斯和其正在圣何塞进行的审判。

Rebecca Jarvis, thank you very much for being with us.

黎贝卡·贾维斯，非常感谢你来到我们的节目。

The defense has only begun its side.

辩护方才刚刚开始。

The prosecution has spent, what, almost two months making this case or even longer.

控方花了差不多两个月的时间甚至更长时间来立案。

If you can, sum up what the prosecution was trying to do.

如果可以的话，请总结一下控方试图做什么。

Well, Judy, the prosecution has shown now in meticulous detail their allegations that Elizabeth Holmes was the one in charge of her company,Theranos, that she's the reason investors, patients and doctors were defrauded here.

朱迪，原告现在已经详细说明了他们的指控，即伊丽莎白·霍姆斯是她的公司Theranos的负责人，她是投资者、患者和医生在这里被诈骗的原因。

And they have shown us individuals, including investors, patients.

他们向我们展示了个人的指控，包括投资者，病人。

We have heard from doctors.

我们打听到了医生的信息。

We have heard from scientists inside the company.

我们从公司内部的科学家那里听到了消息。

We have heard from scientists outside the company, in meticulous detail, laying out this fraud and putting Elizabeth Holmes at the front of it.

我们从公司外的科学家那里打听到了详细的信息，他们揭露了这个骗局，并把伊丽莎白·霍姆斯推到了风口浪尖。

And she has just, as we said, taken the stand,I guess just before Thanksgiving.

她刚刚，就像我们说的，在感恩节之前出庭作证。

She's only-- we have only heard from her for a few days, but it's been dramatic, including her discussing being raped in college.

我们几天前才听到她的消息，但事情很戏剧性，包括她谈到在大学被强奸的事。

Give us a sense of what she's saying and what the reaction's been.

让我们了解一下她说了什么，以及她的反应是什么。

Well, Judy, this has been explosive testimony.

朱迪，这是爆炸性的证词。

We have barely heard from Elizabeth Holmes since the charges were first brought and,

自从指控首次提出以来，我们几乎没有听到伊丽莎白·霍姆斯的消息，

frankly, have never heard some of the things she's been saying on the stand, and seen here in the way she's behaved on the stand, getting emotional, talking about,

坦率地说，我们从来没有听到过她在证人席上说的一些话，我们看到她在证人席上的表现，变得情绪化，谈论你提到的在斯坦福大学被强奸的事情，

as you mentioned, being raped as a college studentat Stanford, that being, according to her, one of the reasons she decided to drop out of Stanfordand begin her blood testing company, Theranos.

正如你提到的，据她说，这是她决定从斯坦福大学退学并创办她的血液检测公司Theranos的原因之一。

And she's also raised these allegations which we thought might come up at this trial against her former boyfriend and COO, Sunny Balwani,

她还提出了这些指控，我们认为这些指控可能会出现在针对她的前男友兼首席运营官桑尼·巴尔瓦尼(Sunny Balwani)的审判中，

alleging years of abuse in the relationship, alleging it was emotional, it was physical, he dictated everything from her schedule to way that she ate.

指控她多年来在关系中受到虐待，声称这是情感上的，是身体上的，从她的日程安排到她的饮食方式，他支配了一切。

Now, these are claims he has denied vociferously.

现在，这些说法，他是大声否认的。

But these are claims that she raised.

但这些都是她提出的主张。

And they are something that certainly the jurors now are going to have to think about as they think about the bigger picture question, whichis, did this woman intend to commit fraud?

当然，这也是陪审员们在考虑更大的问题时需要考虑的问题，也就是这个女人是否有意诈骗?

And what I have read, Rebecca, is that she's walking this fine line, because,on the one hand, she's saying she was heavily influenced by him over a period of time, but then she's now saying that he was not the reason she made these decisions as the head of the company.

黎贝卡，我读到的是她走在这条微妙的界线上，因为一方面，她说她在一段时间内受到了他的严重影响，但现在她又说，作为公司的负责人，她做出这些决定的原因不是他。

Well, and that's a really important point that you raised, Judy, because she was asked point blank by her own attorney, did Sunny Balwani dictate what you said to investors?

朱迪，这是你提出的非常重要的一点，因为她的律师直截了当地问她，你对投资者说的话是桑尼·巴尔瓦尼命令的吗?

Did he dictate what you shared with Walgreens, your biggest customer, Walgreens being the place, the one place where Theranos tests got in front of patients in this country?

是他命令你和沃尔格林分享的吗，沃尔格林是你最大的客户，也是这个国家让Theranos测试在病人面前进行的地方?

So she said point blank, no, that he was not a part of those decisions.That is the fraud here.

所以她直截了当地说，不，他没有参与这些决定。这里就是欺骗。

The fraud is not about the rest of these conversations and allegations, though they might make the jury feel more connected to her.

这些对话和指控的其余部分没有欺骗，尽管可能会让陪审团觉得与她更有联系。

Of course, they have sat in front of her now formany weeks.

当然，他们已经在她面前坐了好几个星期了。

She's been there in the trial with her family sitting behind her, her partner.

她一直在庭审现场，她的家人坐在她身后，她的伴侣。

They have been told that she's a new mom, she has a new born baby.

他们被告知她是一位新妈妈，她有一个新生儿。

And so they have really seen this woman for an extended span of time.

所以他们真的与这个女人待在一起很长一段时间了。

And, Rebecca, of course,whatever the jury decides will havean enormous impact on her.

当然，黎贝卡，无论陪审团做出什么决定，都会对她产生巨大的影响。

She could face up to 20 years in prison.

她可能面临最高20年的监禁。

But it's also seen as a case important for the future of Silicon Valley. How so?

但它也被视为硅谷未来的重要案例。怎么会这样呢？

Well, it raises these questions about faking it until you make it.

嗯，它提出了在你成功之前要假装的问题。

There are definitely people who believe that this is endemic to Silicon Valley, that this is the way people behave in Silicon Valley.

肯定有人认为这是硅谷特有的，这是硅谷人的行为方式。

And then there are those who think this is absolutely not the case.

还有一些人认为情况绝对不是这样的。

The bottom line here is, this is a woman who was able to raise more money than almost any other female founder.

最重要的是，这位女性比几乎任何其他女性创始人都能筹集到更多的资金。

She became one of the wealthiest self-made women in the world.

她成为世界上最富有的白手起家的女性之一。

At one point, her company was worth $9 billion.

她的公司一度价值90亿美元。