美国国家公共电台 NPR Director Barry Jenkins Talks On Behalf Of 'Beale Street'

 

AILSA CHANG, HOST:

The new film "If Beale Street Could Talk" is the story of two young lovers, Fonny and Tish. Tish finds out she's pregnant, but they can't start their life together as a family because Fonny ends up in prison after being falsely accused of rape¹. The movie is based on a James Baldwin novel of the same title. Barry Jenkins adapted and directed the film. I spoke² with Jenkins the other day. And he told me that in working with the Baldwin estate, he received a leather notebook filled with Baldwin's handwritten notes about how he would adapt his novel for film.

BARRY JENKINS: When I opened it, it was like this slow, like, epiphany, this dawning where I understood what I was holding. And it was electric. And so it wasn't this thing where they were sending me this thing to go, just so you know, this is how Jimmy wanted it. If anything, it was a confirmation³ that we were moving in the same spirit.

CHANG: The movie is about how the criminal justice system can pervert⁴ justice, especially against black men. It's also a story about how Tish learns to find her voice. At the start of the film, she's timid and passive. Her sister at one point says to her, unbow your head. And when Tish meets with a white lawyer to discuss Fonny's case, she does.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK")

FINN WITTROCK: (As Hayward) If I didn't believe in Alonzo's innocence⁵, I would never have taken this case.

KIKI LAYNE: (As Tish) Call him Fonny.

WITTROCK: (As Hayward) Excuse me?

LAYNE: (As Tish) Call him Fonny. When you call him Alonzo, I see the judge and the bars and the chains. And I know you're doing my sister a favor. And this is a very fancy law office. But if you're going to do this, you've got to be family. So call him Fonny please.

CHANG: Why does a character like this feel so unusual, a woman who can be both soft and tough at the same time?

JENKINS: I think part of why the character may seem unusual - and, you know, I can't say this is the first character who's exhibited those qualities. But I think what I see in that is authors like James Baldwin have been writing these characters for decades, you know, but authors like James Baldwin haven't been adapted into feature films as often as their peers. The characters exist, you know? And it's incumbent⁶ upon people like me to bring them to the screen.

CHANG: Much of this movie is about, as you say, systemic injustice⁸, in particular about the criminal justice system. And you see that in a scene where Fonny's friend Daniel, played by Brian Tyree Henry, has just been released from prison.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "IF BEALE STREET COULD TALK")

BRIAN TYREE HENRY: (As Daniel Carty) Hey, look; I'm lucky that I only got two years 'cause when you're in there, they can do with you whatever they want. You hear me - whatever they want.

CHANG: I think it was just a span of, like, 10 to 15 minutes where we watched Daniel go from this joking, jovial⁹ guy to this crumpled¹⁰, broken man reliving some private horror in his mind. And, you know, we don't often see black men sharing this kind of vulnerability and intimacy¹¹ with each other. And I know that you have said before that sometimes when two black men meet, they each need to present that they're OK, that they're fine. But you say they're usually not OK. Tell me what you mean by that.

JENKINS: Yeah, I think that, you know, we have these walls - not only men, not only black men. I think everyone - we try to show the world, whether it's on our Twitter profile or our Instagram, that we're all good. But I think that these traumas¹² - we carry them with us. And I think what Mr. Baldwin was doing with that character was showing, this is what could possibly happen to a young man like Fonny. Here it is in flesh and blood. And I just love that as you say, you know, he enters the scene, and he's so jovial and full of life.

CHANG: Yeah.

JENKINS: But as he reveals these layers of himself, you come to understand that this experience he's been through - it's still with him very much. And it's going to weigh him down for the rest of his life.

CHANG: And you make it clear in this movie that the system isn't just working against black men. I mean, Fonny has been falsely accused of rape, and the movie is about the fight to get him out of prison. But Tish's mom, played by Regina King, travels to Puerto Rico to try to convince Fonny's accuser, a Latina, to retract¹³ her false statement. This scene blew me away because Victoria, the victim, who's played by Emily Rios - you were able to make her seem like a victim, too, even though she's refusing to rescue Fonny. She's refusing to tell the police she has absolutely no idea what her rapist looked like. I'm curious. What concerns do you have about depicting¹⁴ a complicated rape survivor¹⁵ like Victoria?

JENKINS: I think it was challenging for sure. The moment that Mr. Baldwin published the novel was a very different moment than the moment that the film was arriving in. In the 19 - early 1970s, I think the semantics, the complications of what Mr. Baldwin was depicting were maybe more rounded. And I think they're much sharper now in the 2018 context. You know, Fonny's not falsely accused of anything. He's chosen out of a police lineup. He's placed in a police lineup by an officer who very clearly has a very racist¹⁶ bent⁷.

And so for me, when you unpack¹⁷ it that way, it was clear that Victoria Rogers is not the antagonist¹⁸. I think all these things are set up in a way that you do empathize with all of them. And so for me, it wasn't a challenge at all to understand that she had as much right to speak as Regina, and she had as much right to her humanity as Fonny.

CHANG: I notice, you know, you make the audience stare directly at Victoria's eyes and find sympathy for her. So much of this movie is looking into the eyes of your characters. Can you tell me why you wanted to turn the gaze directly at the audience so many times?

JENKINS: You know, I think that what we're dealing¹⁹ with in this film is so heavy, you know, and requires such a dense²⁰ unpacking²¹, that to me - when you walk into a cinema, the actors are never looking directly at you. You're always allowed to remain outside it.

CHANG: Yeah.

JENKINS: And for me, there's a level of empathy that that engenders²². But there's a deeper level of empathy that you can access if you're looking someone directly in the eye. We have these moments when we have the characters look directly at the camera. They're often not planned. And I'm glad you mentioned the one with Emily Rios, who plays Victoria Rogers, because that one was not planned. And I just felt like Emily had gone to this place where all these things that were in my head, that this woman is not the antagonist - I felt like we were going to need a moment early in the film where the audience looks her directly in the eye and understands, you are not going to be angry at this person.

CHANG: You know, your gaze is very evident in this movie, too, as a filmmaker. Can you talk about the choices you make when you are lighting²³ black actors?

JENKINS: You know, those choices belong to my cinematographer, James Laxton.

CHANG: (Laughter).

JENKINS: So I've got to give him all the props²⁴ there.

CHANG: Yeah. Yeah.

JENKINS: You know, what I'll say with James is, you know, we've been working together since we were in film school and we were learning the history of how film emulsion was constructed. Emulsion film, like, 35-millimeter Kodak film, was not designed for feature films. It was designed for suburban²⁵ families to take home, you know, and record images of their kids. And those kids, the people who had the spending power, were primarily white. And so emulsion film was originally engineered to accurately²⁶ represent white skin. When you would go and buy, you know, film in the '40s, the '50s and '60s, you know, for black folks it was very difficult, you know, for us to turn out.

CHANG: What do you mean? How would you ordinarily turn out?

JENKINS: I think that if you're adjusted or white-balanced, you know, for white skin, then, you know, black skin's going to be underexposed. You know, this richness, this luster²⁷, you know, is not going to accurately reproduce. I think now with these digital tools all those things have been thrown to the wayside. And so again, we can build a production approach that is specifically designed to recalibrate the history of cinema so that it's now designed to prioritize this dark skin.

CHANG: And to show all the dimensions in different kinds of dark skin.

JENKINS: My dear, there is a scene in this film where there are eight black people sitting in the living room of so many different hues²⁸, and they all look so wonderful.

CHANG: And so different.

JENKINS: Such a shout-out to James. I'm very proud of him.

CHANG: Barry Jenkins - he's the director of "If Beale Street Could Talk." Thank you very, very much.

JENKINS: Thank you, my dear. It was a pleasure.

(SOUNDBITE OF NICHOLAS BRITELL'S "THE CHILDREN OF OUR AGE")

1 rape   

n.抢夺，掠夺，强奸；vt.掠夺，抢夺，强奸

参考例句：

• The rape of the countryside had a profound ravage on them.对乡村的掠夺给他们造成严重创伤。
• He was brought to court and charged with rape.他被带到法庭并被指控犯有强奸罪。

2 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

3 confirmation   

n.证实，确认，批准

参考例句：

• We are waiting for confirmation of the news.我们正在等待证实那个消息。
• We need confirmation in writing before we can send your order out.给你们发送订购的货物之前，我们需要书面确认。

4 pervert   

n.堕落者，反常者；vt.误用，滥用；使人堕落，使入邪路

参考例句：

• Reading such silly stories will pervert your taste for good books.读这种愚昧的故事会败坏你对好书的嗜好。
• Do not pervert the idea.别歪曲那想法。

5 innocence   

n.无罪；天真；无害

参考例句：

• There was a touching air of innocence about the boy.这个男孩有一种令人感动的天真神情。
• The accused man proved his innocence of the crime.被告人经证实无罪。

6 incumbent   

adj.成为责任的，有义务的；现任的，在职的

参考例句：

• He defeated the incumbent governor by a large plurality.他以压倒多数票击败了现任州长。
• It is incumbent upon you to warn them.你有责任警告他们。

7 bent   

n.爱好，癖好；adj.弯的；决心的，一心的

参考例句：

• He was fully bent upon the project.他一心扑在这项计划上。
• We bent over backward to help them.我们尽了最大努力帮助他们。

8 injustice   

n.非正义，不公正，不公平，侵犯（别人的）权利

参考例句：

• They complained of injustice in the way they had been treated.他们抱怨受到不公平的对待。
• All his life he has been struggling against injustice.他一生都在与不公正现象作斗争。

9 jovial   

adj.快乐的，好交际的

参考例句：

• He seemed jovial,but his eyes avoided ours.他显得很高兴，但他的眼光却避开了我们的眼光。
• Grandma was plump and jovial.祖母身材圆胖，整天乐呵呵的。

10 crumpled   

adj. 弯扭的, 变皱的 动词crumple的过去式和过去分词形式

参考例句：

• She crumpled the letter up into a ball and threw it on the fire. 她把那封信揉成一团扔进了火里。
• She flattened out the crumpled letter on the desk. 她在写字台上把皱巴巴的信展平。

11 intimacy   

n.熟悉，亲密，密切关系，亲昵的言行

参考例句：

• His claims to an intimacy with the President are somewhat exaggerated.他声称自己与总统关系密切，这有点言过其实。
• I wish there were a rule book for intimacy.我希望能有个关于亲密的规则。

12 traumas   

n.心灵创伤( trauma的名词复数 )；损伤；痛苦经历；挫折

参考例句：

• She felt exhausted after the traumas of recent weeks. 她经受了最近几个星期的痛苦之后感到精疲力竭。
• Conclusion: Safety lens of spectacles can protect the occurrence of ocular traumas. 结论：安全镜片可以预防眼镜碎片所致的眼外伤。 来自互联网

13 retract   

vt.缩回，撤回收回，取消

参考例句：

• The criminals should stop on the precipice, retract from the wrong path and not go any further.犯罪分子应当迷途知返，悬崖勒马，不要在错误的道路上继续走下去。
• I don't want to speak rashly now and later have to retract my statements.我不想现在说些轻率的话，然后又要收回自己说过的话。

14 depicting   

描绘，描画( depict的现在分词 )； 描述

参考例句：

• a painting depicting the Virgin and Child 一幅描绘童贞马利亚和圣子耶稣的画
• The movie depicting the battles and bloodshed is bound to strike home. 这部描写战斗和流血牺牲的影片一定会取得预期效果。

15 survivor   

n.生存者，残存者，幸存者

参考例句：

• The sole survivor of the crash was an infant.这次撞车的惟一幸存者是一个婴儿。
• There was only one survivor of the plane crash.这次飞机失事中只有一名幸存者。

16 racist   

n.种族主义者，种族主义分子

参考例句：

• a series of racist attacks 一连串的种族袭击行为
• His speech presented racist ideas under the guise of nationalism. 他的讲话以民族主义为幌子宣扬种族主义思想。

17 unpack   

vt.打开包裹（或行李），卸货

参考例句：

• I must unpack before dinner.我得在饭前把行李打开。
• She said she would unpack the items later.她说以后再把箱子里的东西拿出来。

18 antagonist   

n.敌人，对抗者，对手

参考例句：

• His antagonist in the debate was quicker than he.在辩论中他的对手比他反应快。
• The thing is to know the nature of your antagonist.要紧的是要了解你的对手的特性。

19 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

20 dense   

a.密集的，稠密的，浓密的；密度大的

参考例句：

• The general ambushed his troops in the dense woods. 将军把部队埋伏在浓密的树林里。
• The path was completely covered by the dense foliage. 小路被树叶厚厚地盖了一层。

21 unpacking   

n.取出货物，拆包[箱]v.从（包裹等）中取出（所装的东西），打开行李取出( unpack的现在分词 )；拆包；解除…的负担；吐露（心事等）

参考例句：

• Joe sat on the bed while Martin was unpacking. 马丁打开箱子取东西的时候，乔坐在床上。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• They are unpacking a trunk. 他们正在打开衣箱。 来自《简明英汉词典》

22 engenders   

v.产生（某形势或状况），造成，引起( engender的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• Sympathy often engenders love. 同情常常产生爱情。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• Some people believe poverty engenders crime. 有人认为贫困生罪恶。 来自辞典例句

23 lighting   

n.照明，光线的明暗，舞台灯光

参考例句：

• The gas lamp gradually lost ground to electric lighting.煤气灯逐渐为电灯所代替。
• The lighting in that restaurant is soft and romantic.那个餐馆照明柔和而且浪漫。

24 props   

小道具； 支柱( prop的名词复数 )； 支持者； 道具； （橄榄球中的）支柱前锋

参考例句：

• Rescuers used props to stop the roof of the tunnel collapsing. 救援人员用支柱防止隧道顶塌陷。
• The government props up the prices of farm products to support farmers' incomes. 政府保持农产品价格不变以保障农民们的收入。

25 suburban   

adj.城郊的，在郊区的

参考例句：

• Suburban shopping centers were springing up all over America. 效区的商业中心在美国如雨后春笋般地兴起。
• There's a lot of good things about suburban living.郊区生活是有许多优点。

26 accurately   

adv.准确地，精确地

参考例句：

• It is hard to hit the ball accurately.准确地击中球很难。
• Now scientists can forecast the weather accurately.现在科学家们能准确地预报天气。

27 luster   

n.光辉；光泽，光亮；荣誉

参考例句：

• His great books have added luster to the university where he teaches.他的巨著给他任教的大学增了光。
• Mercerization enhances dyeability and luster of cotton materials.丝光处理扩大棉纤维的染色能力，增加纤维的光泽。

28 hues   

色彩( hue的名词复数 )； 色调； 信仰； 观点

参考例句：

• When the sun rose a hundred prismatic hues were reflected from it. 太阳一出，更把它映得千变万化、异彩缤纷。
• Where maple trees grow, the leaves are often several brilliant hues of red. 在枫树生长的地方，枫叶常常呈现出数种光彩夺目的红色。