美国国家公共电台 NPR Cleric Accused Of Plotting Turkish Coup Attempt: 'I Have Stood Against All Coups'

 

KELLY MCEVERS, HOST:

Now a rare interview with a man who stands accused of orchestrating an attempted coup¹ in his native country, Turkey, all of this from his home in the Pocono Mountains. Yesterday, he sat down with our colleague Robert Siegel at his compound in Saylorsburg, Pa.

ROBERT SIEGEL, BYLINE²: I'm at the Golden Generation Worship & Retreat Center. It used to be a summer camp where Turkish-American families from New Jersey³ would send their kids to beat the heat here in the Pocono Mountains. Since 1999, the center has been home to one of the most influential⁴ and enigmatic religious figures in his native country, Turkey.

Fethullah Gulen is a Muslim religious scholar and teacher.

To his millions of followers⁵, he is a guiding light. To the Turkish government of Gulen's one-time political ally, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, he was the master plotter of last summer's failed military coup - a coup that left more than 200 people dead. Gulen denies it. Turkey wants the U.S. to extradite him and try him as a terrorist. Gulen's movement, it's called Hizmet, Turkish for service, operates schools around the world, including dozens of charter schools in the United States.

His followers in Turkey became influential in education, in business and government. Since the failed coup of last July, they have been victims of a nationwide purge⁶ in Turkey. And that was the first subject I raised with Mr. Gulen when I interviewed him here at the center.

FETHULLAH GULEN: (Through interpreter) These innocent people have been taken away as victims of groundless logic⁷ and in violation⁸ of rights and justice.

SIEGEL: The deputy prime minister of Turkey says that the government has seized over 900 companies and institutions worth over $11 billion because they say those institutions were run by your sympathizers. Have they destroyed the institutions of the Gulen movement in Turkey?

GULEN: (Through interpreter) It seems they have completely emptied out the assets of these companies and institutions. And I am not embellishing⁹ when I say that they are interested in closing their own budget deficits¹⁰ through these acquisitions.

SIEGEL: One hundred forty thousand people have been purged¹¹ from their jobs, 50,000 have been arrested. We asked the Turkish Embassy to respond to Fethullah Gulen's claims. The embassy declined to provide a statement in response. But we know what the government says about Gulen and what many of his critics and detractors say. They say his organization is secretive and opaque¹², a state within a state.

I asked him about a British parliamentary investigation¹³ into last July's attempted coup. It found that Gulenist officers took part but so did other officers - some were secular¹⁴, some were careerists, some were just following a superior's orders. That inquiry¹⁵ found no solid evidence that Gulen called the shots or that he's a terrorist. But it noted¹⁶ that the Gulen organization lacks transparency.

And that makes it, and this is a quote, "impossible to confirm that all of its activities are philanthropic." Why do so many people in Turkey see the Hizmet movement as somehow secretive or conspiratorial¹⁷?

GULEN: (Through interpreter) The perception that I control all of this, that I tell people to do things and that they are doing them, there is no such thing. As I have said to one lawmaker, if there is any suspicion or secrecy¹⁸, they should conduct deep investigations¹⁹ and expose it. I'm not clear on what it is that is so secret, but they should send their law enforcement and intelligence services to uncover it.

I firmly support that.

SIEGEL: You would say this is not a hierarchical organization. Your critics all seem to think that if you say I think the following would be good for Turkey, hundreds of thousands of people in Turkey would do that because you said so.

GULEN: (Through interpreter) All I have done so far is to give lectures and advice in mosques²⁰ and conference halls. I spoke²¹ against poverty, divisions and ignorance. And I told my audience that investing in education is the best solution to these problems. I repeated this everywhere I went. And there were people who found this to be a right and rational cause, influenced by religious motivation. It cannot be said that this is a secret society or any such thing.

I simply spoke, and they respected my words and ideas and established schools.

SIEGEL: But you know how this is used against you. A critic of yours will argue that an officer in the army who reads you and who is inspired by you would never take part in a coup and an attempted coup unless he knew that you thought it was a good idea.

GULEN: (Through interpreter) To this day, I have stood against all coups²². I suffered during the military intervention²³ of May 27, 1960 and then again on March 12, 1971 and again on September 12, 1980. And I was targeted after February 28, 1997. My respect for the military aside, I have always been against interventions²⁴. I don't know the people who attempted the July 15 coup last year.

They might know me. They may have attended some lectures. I have no idea.

SIEGEL: He denies that he ever communicated with any of the officers who tried to oust²⁵ Erdogan last July.

GULEN: (Through interpreter) But if I were to even entertain that idea, if anyone among those soldiers had called me and told me of their plan, I would have told them, you are committing murder.

SIEGEL: And yet, Recep Tayyip Erdogan persists in blaming Gulen for the attempted coup. What complicates²⁶ all this is that for a few years, Erdogan and Gulen were political allies. They both appeal to Islamic values in a country that is constitutionally secular. When they were on the same side, Turkish authorities mounted vast investigations of secular military officers and journalists.

Many of those running the investigations were seen as Gulenists. But Gulen says they were not acting²⁷ at his direction.

GULEN: (Through interpreter) I guarantee you that I do not know even 1/10 of one percent of those police officers, judges and prosecutors²⁹. However, I am aware that they might have been sympathetic to the movement. I have no need to lie at this age. Erdogan used those officers, judges, prosecutors against people who were against him.

SIEGEL: Then the targets of the criminal justice system turned from the military and the press to corrupt³⁰ members of Erdogan's own party and government. The Gulenist judges tried to persevere³¹ and then the Gulen-Erdogan alliance was over.

GULEN: (Through interpreter) Since Erdogan saw himself as virtuous³² and dignified³³, he was deeply disturbed when these allegations of corruption³⁴ began to surface. His reputation and credibility were being severely³⁵ damaged, and he viewed us as being responsible. He needed a scapegoat³⁶.

SIEGEL: You're describing a political leader who is very - sounds very dangerous. Does he pose a danger to Turkey?

GULEN: (Through interpreter) I don't see a bright future for Turkey. It pains me, but I have some hope. I pray for it to be better. It is a blessed country, a NATO member and was an EU candidate. These were things we wanted, to see progress and democracy, to see respect for diversity of thought.

SIEGEL: It surprises many Americans to learn that the most famous Turkish Islamic scholar of our times, you, lives in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. Can you explain to an American simply why you're here? And are you concerned about being extradited and being taken away from here?

GULEN: (Through interpreter) I never really wanted to leave Turkey. But I had some heart problems, and a cardiologist at the Mayo Clinic insisted that I come here and get treatment. So I traveled here while. And while I was in the hospital, a prosecutor²⁸ in Turkey opened a case against me. So I was advised to remain here until things calmed down. But they never quite did.

I haven't ventured out of the retreat much, only to come and go to the hospital, as I prefer tranquility. With regards to the extradition³⁷ demand by Turkey, I think the United States is mindful of its reputation for democracy and the rule of law. And if they are willing to risk that reputation by extraditing me based on the request and claims made by Turkey, I would never say no.

I would go willingly. I am living my final years, even if they decide to kill me or poison me or bring back the death sentence to hang me. When I was a young Imam a long time ago, I was present at the execution of two men, and I asked them their final wish. If they asked me what my final wish is, I will say the person who caused all this suffering and oppressed thousands of innocents, I want to spit in his face.

SIEGEL: Are you speaking of President Erdogan?

GULEN: (Through interpreter) It can't be anyone else. He is the oppressor.

SIEGEL: Fethullah Gulen is nearing 80. He has suffered from coronary disease and what he's described as problems with his immune system. On the subject of his own mortality, he told me this. Erdogan thinks ending me will end the movement. He couldn't be more wrong. The people who use their rationality and free will shall continue doing their great work.

[POST-BROADCAST CLARIFICATION: Former Turkish President Abdullah Gul visited Fethullah Gulen at Gulen’s retreat in Pennsylvania before he became president in 2007.]

1 coup   

n.政变；突然而成功的行动

参考例句：

• The monarch was ousted by a military coup.那君主被军事政变者废黜了。
• That government was overthrown in a military coup three years ago.那个政府在3年前的军事政变中被推翻。

2 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

3 jersey   

n.运动衫

参考例句：

• He wears a cotton jersey when he plays football.他穿运动衫踢足球。
• They were dressed alike in blue jersey and knickers.他们穿着一致，都是蓝色的运动衫和灯笼短裤。

4 influential   

adj.有影响的，有权势的

参考例句：

• He always tries to get in with the most influential people.他总是试图巴结最有影响的人物。
• He is a very influential man in the government.他在政府中是个很有影响的人物。

5 followers   

追随者( follower的名词复数 )； 用户； 契据的附面； 从动件

参考例句：

• the followers of Mahatma Gandhi 圣雄甘地的拥护者
• The reformer soon gathered a band of followers round him. 改革者很快就获得一群追随者支持他。

6 purge   

n.整肃，清除，泻药，净化；vt.净化，清除，摆脱；vi.清除，通便，腹泻，变得清洁

参考例句：

• The new president carried out a purge of disloyal army officers.新总统对不忠诚的军官进行了清洗。
• The mayoral candidate has promised to purge the police department.市长候选人答应清洗警察部门。

7 logic   

n.逻辑(学)；逻辑性

参考例句：

• What sort of logic is that?这是什么逻辑？
• I don't follow the logic of your argument.我不明白你的论点逻辑性何在。

8 violation   

n.违反(行为)，违背(行为)，侵犯

参考例句：

• He roared that was a violation of the rules.他大声说，那是违反规则的。
• He was fined 200 dollars for violation of traffic regulation.他因违反交通规则被罚款200美元。

9 embellishing   

v.美化( embellish的现在分词 )；装饰；修饰；润色

参考例句：

• He kept embellishing it in his mind, building up the laughs. 他在心里不断地为它添油加醋，增加笑料。 来自辞典例句
• Bumper's each angle is embellishing the small air vent, manifested complete bikes's width to increase. 保险杠的每个角都点缀着小的通风孔，体现了整车的宽度增加。 来自互联网

10 deficits   

n.不足额( deficit的名词复数 )；赤字；亏空；亏损

参考例句：

• The Ministry of Finance consistently overestimated its budget deficits. 财政部一贯高估预算赤字。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Many of the world's farmers are also incurring economic deficits. 世界上许多农民还在遭受经济上的亏损。 来自辞典例句

11 purged   

清除（政敌等）( purge的过去式和过去分词 )； 涤除（罪恶等）； 净化（心灵、风气等）； 消除（错事等）的不良影响

参考例句：

• He purged his enemies from the Party. 他把他的敌人从党内清洗出去。
• The iron in the chemical compound must be purged. 化学混合物中的铁必须清除。

12 opaque   

adj.不透光的；不反光的，不传导的；晦涩的

参考例句：

• The windows are of opaque glass.这些窗户装着不透明玻璃。
• Their intentions remained opaque.他们的意图仍然令人费解。

13 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

14 secular   

n.牧师，凡人；adj.世俗的，现世的，不朽的

参考例句：

• We live in an increasingly secular society.我们生活在一个日益非宗教的社会。
• Britain is a plural society in which the secular predominates.英国是个世俗主导的多元社会。

15 inquiry   

n.打听，询问，调查，查问

参考例句：

• Many parents have been pressing for an inquiry into the problem.许多家长迫切要求调查这个问题。
• The field of inquiry has narrowed down to five persons.调查的范围已经缩小到只剩5个人了。

16 noted   

adj.著名的，知名的

参考例句：

• The local hotel is noted for its good table.当地的那家酒店以餐食精美而著称。
• Jim is noted for arriving late for work.吉姆上班迟到出了名。

17 conspiratorial   

adj.阴谋的，阴谋者的

参考例句：

• She handed the note to me with a conspiratorial air. 她鬼鬼祟祟地把字条交给了我。 来自辞典例句
• It was enough to win a gap-toothed, conspiratorial grin. 这赢得对方咧嘴一笑。 来自互联网

18 secrecy   

n.秘密，保密，隐蔽

参考例句：

• All the researchers on the project are sworn to secrecy.该项目的所有研究人员都按要求起誓保守秘密。
• Complete secrecy surrounded the meeting.会议在绝对机密的环境中进行。

19 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

20 mosques   

清真寺； 伊斯兰教寺院，清真寺； 清真寺，伊斯兰教寺院( mosque的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Why make us believe that this tunnel runs underneath the mosques? 为什么要让我们相信这条隧洞是在清真寺下？
• The city's three biggest mosques, long fallen into disrepair, have been renovated. 城里最大的三座清真寺，过去年久失修，现在已经修复。

21 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

22 coups   

n.意外而成功的行动( coup的名词复数 )；政变；努力办到难办的事

参考例句：

• China has seen many political coups within the ruling class. 中国统治阶级内部发生过很多政变。 来自互联网
• Thailand has had eighteen coups or coup attendance since nineteen thirty-two. 泰国1932年以来有18次政变或参加政变。 来自互联网

23 intervention   

n.介入，干涉，干预

参考例句：

• The government's intervention in this dispute will not help.政府对这场争论的干预不会起作用。
• Many people felt he would be hostile to the idea of foreign intervention.许多人觉得他会反对外来干预。

24 interventions   

n.介入，干涉，干预( intervention的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Economic analysis of government interventions deserves detailed discussion. 政府对经济的干预应该给予充分的论述。 来自辞典例句
• The judge's frequent interventions made a mockery of justice. 法官的屡屡干预是对正义的践踏。 来自互联网

25 oust   

vt.剥夺，取代，驱逐

参考例句：

• The committee wanted to oust him from the union.委员会想把他从工会中驱逐出去。
• The leaders have been ousted from power by nationalists.这些领导人被民族主义者赶下了台。

26 complicates   

使复杂化( complicate的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• What complicates the issue is the burden of history. 历史的重负使问题复杂化了。
• Russia as a great and ambitious power gravely complicates the situation. 俄国作为一个强大而有野心的国家，使得局势异常复杂。

27 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

28 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

29 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

30 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

31 persevere   

v.坚持，坚忍，不屈不挠

参考例句：

• They are determined to persevere in the fight.他们决心坚持战斗。
• It is strength of character enabled him to persevere.他那坚强的性格使他能够坚持不懈。

32 virtuous   

adj.有品德的，善良的，贞洁的，有效力的

参考例句：

• She was such a virtuous woman that everybody respected her.她是个有道德的女性，人人都尊敬她。
• My uncle is always proud of having a virtuous wife.叔叔一直为娶到一位贤德的妻子而骄傲。

33 dignified   

a.可敬的，高贵的

参考例句：

• Throughout his trial he maintained a dignified silence. 在整个审讯过程中，他始终沉默以保持尊严。
• He always strikes such a dignified pose before his girlfriend. 他总是在女友面前摆出这种庄严的姿态。

34 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

35 severely   

adv.严格地；严厉地；非常恶劣地

参考例句：

• He was severely criticized and removed from his post.他受到了严厉的批评并且被撤了职。
• He is severely put down for his careless work.他因工作上的粗心大意而受到了严厉的批评。

36 scapegoat   

n.替罪的羔羊，替人顶罪者；v.使…成为替罪羊

参考例句：

• He has been made a scapegoat for the company's failures.他成了公司倒闭的替罪羊。
• They ask me to join the party so that I'll be their scapegoat when trouble comes.他们想叫我入伙，出了乱子，好让我替他们垫背。

37 extradition   

n.引渡（逃犯）

参考例句：

• The smuggler is in prison tonight,awaiting extradition to Britain.这名走私犯今晚在监狱，等待引渡到英国。
• He began to trouble concerning the extradition laws.他开始费尽心思地去想关于引渡法的问题。