华盛顿邮报 美绝密文件泄漏令高层恐慌 (2)（在线收听）

    So, Alex, what is the U.S. government saying about this -- everything from their awareness of them to the legitimacy of the documents?

    那么，亚历克斯，美国政府对此是怎么说的——他们对文件合法性的认识是怎么说的?

    So, when they talk about the documents publicly, they prefer to focus on the investigation on -- on who leaked them.

    当他们公开谈论这些文件时，他们更愿意把重点放在谁泄漏了信息的调查上。

    They've launched an investigation on there. They're working with the Justice Department to -- to figure this out.

    他们已经对此展开了调查。他们正在与司法部合作来搞清楚事件。

    Some national-security experts I talked to said the consequences for this person are -- are -- are rather severe. You know, this could be, you know, years in prison for -- for whoever leaked it.

    我采访过的一些国家安全专家表示，这个泄密者的后果会相当严重。泄露消息者可能会被判入狱数年。

    I mean, the head of the Intelligence Committee in the House has said they're a traitor.

    众议院情报委员会主席称这些人是卖国贼。

    Yeah, yeah. And we don't know this person's motivation. We don't know if this is to win an online argument, you know, about, you know, how the war is going.

    对。我们不知道这个人的动机是什么。我们不知道这是否能赢得网络上关于战争进展情况的辩论。

    We have -- We have no clue to the motivations. You know, they might be a Russian agent. We -- We just don't know.

    我们对动机一无所知。他们可能是俄罗斯特工。我们不知道。

    When it -- When it comes to the legitimacy of the documents, some of my earlier questions, you know, to the Pentagon, you know, after -- after they reviewed them was there did appear to be a manipulation in one of the slides that downplayed Russian losses and, you know, artificially inflated the number of estimated Ukrainian losses.

    说到这些文件的合法性，这是我之前问过五角大楼的一些问题。他们在审查了这些文件后发现，其中一张幻灯片似乎确实存在人为操纵，淡化了俄罗斯的损失，人为夸大了乌克兰预估的损失量。

    We're on the hunt for other manipulations in the other documents.

    我们在追查其他文件中的篡改。

    But I think it's important to note that there are different waves of document releases that when we went in and scraped from Discord and from users who were in that server, that first batch was unaltered.

    但需要注意的是，当我们进出Discord服务器从用户那里收集信息时，会有一波又一波地各种不同文件发布出来，其中，第一批文件未经修改。

    You know, John Kirby, who's high up in the National Security Council, has said we don't know the extent of the leaks.

    国家安全委员会的高层约翰·柯比表示，我们不清楚泄露的程度。

    At this point, do you believe the leak is contained?

    此时此刻，你相信已经控制住泄密了吗?

    Are there more documents out there that have not been released publicly? Is this an ongoing threat?

    有没有更多的文件未公开发布? 这是一个持续的威胁吗?

    We don't know. We truly don't know.

    我们不知道。我们真的不知道。

    What does that tell you?

    这说明了什么?

    I think it tells me a couple of things -- that they don't have an ability to -- to go out there, or maybe they don't even know where to look I think is maybe one issue.

    我认为这说明了几件事——他们没有能力找到源头，他们可能甚至不知道去哪里找，我认为这可能是个问题。

    I also think that, you know, some of these Discord servers are -- are private. They can shut down. They can move somewhere else.

    我还认为，Discord服务器是私人的。他们可以关掉信息、可以将信息搬到其他地方。

    You know, there -- there is no telling if there's just gonna be, you know, a constant drip, drip, drip, or we're -- or if we're just gonna find one.

    很难说，Discord服务器是否会一直泄漏信息，如果我们能找到一个的话。

    You know, documents after this that are still bouncing around -- there's -- there's no telling.

    文件在事件发生后还在四处流传，但没有证据。